Is There Another Way to Install a Fuel Pump? (Gasoline/Petrol)

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The initial boiling point of many e-10 blends is 95-100F, so you are not going to reliably suck them upwards AT ALL on a hot day. Not happening, it will bubble in the line or pump. The pump specs don't matter. It may work sometimes, but not all the time.


On the PDQ in the image, the gas tank in on the bridge deck, above the engines. The tank compartment has drains overboard, as do the fuel line runs. Even safer.


The simple solution is an in-tank pump (no seal leaks) that only runs when the motor is keyed on. Very common. You just need to maintain the system. Having the filters in a box is good, since they are the most leak-prone component.



(I do refinery engineering)

+1 for what he said. Get an auto submersible pump. Many cars run for a lotta hours with them.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Compass790

+1 for what he said. Get an auto submersible pump. Many cars run for a lotta hours with them.

A few concerns with this approach:

1) pressurized gasoline fuel lines in my boat.

2) how do I change the fuel pump when it goes bad?

3) I have to buy 3 pumps?

4) how do I install these given it’s a poly tank that’s all polypropylene welded everywhere?

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Hmmm. And when you fill the tank and the breather is blasting air out?

Is the aquarium pump ok with this?

Aquarium pump is rated at 100% duty cycle.
It is a life support system (for fish)
I wouldn't catergorise it as capable of blasting air.

Wire the pump to the ignition circuit.
Always on when you need it, never on when you don't.

The bubbler will not provide fuel flow to supply the engines.
It will take the load off the fuel pump and provide enough positive pressure to prevent vapour lock.

Another advantage is your fuel tanks are no longer vented to the internal storage space reducing exposure to ignition sources.
The bubbler can be remotely mounted and if you wish a filter / dryer can be installed on the intake preventing in ingress of moisture into the fuel system.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Compass790

+1 for what he said. Get an auto submersible pump. Many cars run for a lotta hours with them.

Auto pumps in tank are generally high pressure (like 80 to 100PSI before regulator) and have a fairly large return line. Typically a 10mm supply/pressure and 8mm return line and a regulated pressure of anywhere from 28 to 65 PSI.

You would need an in tank low pressure pump that's capable of overcoming 60" to 120'? of dry head. Not sure they exist.

The low pressure in tank pumps have very little dry lift capacity.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Aquarium pump is rated at 100% duty cycle.
It is a life support system (for fish)
I wouldn't catergorise it as capable of blasting air.

Wire the pump to the ignition circuit.
Always on when you need it, never on when you don't.

The bubbler will not provide fuel flow to supply the engines.
It will take the load off the fuel pump and provide enough positive pressure to prevent vapour lock.

Another advantage is your fuel tanks are no longer vented to the internal storage space reducing exposure to ignition sources.
The bubbler can be remotely mounted and if you wish a filter / dryer can be installed on the intake preventing in ingress of moisture into the fuel system.

You have to vent the tank or the anti back flow on the fuel dock nozzle will have you there for hours filling the tank. A ball valve on the vent hose would work. Or a solenoid valve,

How do you regulate ambient temperature fluctuation? Open vent hose when not running the engines presumably

That's an explosion proof pump right? Or at least a 12V one?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Aquarium pump is rated at 100% duty cycle.

It is a life support system (for fish)

I wouldn't catergorise it as capable of blasting air.



Wire the pump to the ignition circuit.

Always on when you need it, never on when you don't.



The bubbler will not provide fuel flow to supply the engines.

It will take the load off the fuel pump and provide enough positive pressure to prevent vapour lock.



Another advantage is your fuel tanks are no longer vented to the internal storage space reducing exposure to ignition sources.

The bubbler can be remotely mounted and if you wish a filter / dryer can be installed on the intake preventing in ingress of moisture into the fuel system.

You’re suggesting pressurizing a plastic gasoline tank ull time in the hull of the boat?!?!?!

[Scubaseas]

Anyone have ABYC H24? The pressurized tank (which is brilliant btw) may not be approved? I have the diesel standards which under H24.33.11.C "No pressurized tanks shall be built into or permanently attached to hulls." for diesel outboard powered boats. Don't know if that would apply here or not. Maybe a remote mounted pump or air tank bladder? Hooking up a 120V air pump to an explosive vapor line strikes me as a bad idea?

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I currently have a fuel system with 3 inboard gasoline/petrol tanks.

A fuel line runs uninterrupted from each tank into an on-deck “explosives box” which is over the water and vented with holes in the bottom to allow gasoline, propane to drain overboard in case of emergency. Super safe.

My fuel pump, Racor filter/separator and the valves to select the active fuel tank are all located in this deck box locker.

I’ve always had a fuel problem. Pumps aren’t lasting, fuel delivery can be spotty occasionally.

From what I’ve read, sucking fuel up from a distance is a bad idea and can cause vapor lock, which I think I run into occasionally. You’re supposed to push the fuel up the hill by having the pump near or inside the fuel tank. The gasoline system is supposed to be under pressure.

The proper installation of a gasoline fuel pump is at direct odds with my safety protocols.

How can I reconcile these issues?

Do I put a fuel pump AND my ball valves for switching tanks below?? Sounds risky.

Do I put 3 fuel pumps below? One for each tank? Then close off other tanks from above in the “explosives box” with ball valves and have a complicated system where I have to manage non-return valves and 3 different fuel pumps to push the fuel up?

Is there any way to suck gasoline/petrol up a 60” hill from tank to my on deck explosives box?

What’s normally done in gasoline inboard boats?

What meets ABYC safety guidelines?

I can’t seem to get this one right. I thought I could suck fuel up 60” and all would be well.

NOTE: I also put the fuel pump AFTER the Racor. So it goes fuel tank-> 60” lift -> ball valves gallery for selecting tank -> Racor -> Fuel pump -> outboard engines.

Are you telling us that your 50 ft new catamaran is powered by gasoline fueled, outboard engines??

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Are you telling us that your 50 ft new catamaran is powered by gasoline fueled, outboard engines??

Yes, he went for outboards.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

You’re suggesting pressurizing a plastic gasoline tank ull time in the hull of the boat?!?!?!

It's OK, They're plastic tanks. No sparks. Three in one hull. Here, hold my beer. What could go wrong?

[Madehn]

no offense to anyone personally but anybody that even thinks of pressurizing a plastic gasoline tank with aquarium bubblers ---- keep that thing far away from me- from a laymans guess i would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 yards would be a safe distance to be able to grab souvenirs that drift down when that thing goes-- i gotta put that into REALLY REALLY BAD internet advice- my thoughts make a small day tank and use the larger pump to fill it-- you are building a multi buck boat and think enough about safety to have your valves outside the hulls- cant think of any world where having pressurized gas tanks makes any sense. also the cost of the extra pumps is negligble compared to the safety risk-- aquarium bubblers????? SERIOUSLY??? i do give it credit for thinking outside of the box- the sanity box.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Are you telling us that your 50 ft new catamaran is powered by gasoline fueled, outboard engines??

Yeah. It’s a sailboat. Not a power boat.

[Chotu]

Ha ha ha. Yes, pressurized fuel in my hulls is a non starter. Way too risky.

150 gallons of gasoline leaking out into the bilge is a life threatening event.

What does ABYC suggest? Anyone have this chapter?

Man, I hate the idea of a day tank. I understand why it’s a good idea, I just don’t want to make more space for fuel when it’s already in a tank.

Maybe I can shave every inch of rise off the fuel supply line and put the pump at the very bottom of the “explosives box” which isn’t too far above the top of the tanks.

[rslifkin]

Reducing the rise to the pump is a good start. Anything that can shorten the run to the tanks would help too.

You could also go to 3 pumps with selector switches in addition to the valves. Then if a pump dies you can switch tanks and it's not an immediate loss of fuel.

Liquid gas in the bilge scares me, but a leak in the pressurized part of the fuel system scares me more, as that's likely to go bad very quickly, possibly before you know about the problem.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ha ha ha. Yes, pressurized fuel in my hulls is a non starter. Way too risky.

150 gallons of gasoline leaking out into the bilge is a life threatening event.

What does ABYC suggest? Anyone have this chapter?

Man, I hate the idea of a day tank. I understand why it’s a good idea, I just don’t want to make more space for fuel when it’s already in a tank.

Maybe I can shave every inch of rise off the fuel supply line and put the pump at the very bottom of the “explosives box” which isn’t too far above the top of the tanks.

You need to account for dry head, lift and then complicate it with the lift pumps in your engines. What engines do you have?

If you have Yamaha they won't like more than about 3.5 PSI on the inlet hose to the VST or by extension the lift pump. The VST is the fuel tank under the intake manifold that holds the injection pump. It's like a carburetor bowl. Easily solved with a pressure regulator if your line pressure arrives above the 3.5sih PSI. The symptom of this happening, if you over power the needle and seat on the VST is stalling then very, very hard to start and raw gas coming out of the VST vent hose. But I could better tell you knowing what engines you have.

I'd put a call or an email into Facet's design section and describe your issues. Keep in mind whatever pumps you use unless they are transfer pumps will need some sort of kill mechanism to turn the feed pump/s off if the motors shut down per ABYC. Pretty sure Facet will tell you it's OK to run the Duralift pump full time without it vapor locking and to not worry about the flow being at 33GPH. The Duralifts can easily pull fuel up your 60". The 40303 Duralift is a 6.25 to 425psi pump so you may or not have to regulate it. Again they are designed to pull fuel up to120", run continuously and are designed not to vapor lock even in hot weather.