Oil Filter may have killed my engine

[Taipe]

I would contact your marine insurance company and see what they recommend.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

They don’t, not by a long shot.
However many Yanmar, Ford, GM, etc filters are actually made by many different manufacturers, and these change often.
The big motor companies don’t make filters of course, they let out a bid unusually with a spec list, then manufacturers bid on the contract, lowest bidder usually wins, so buying motor manufacturers filters doesn’t necessarily mean much.

For oil and filter questions, bobistheoilguy.com used to be the go to place to get answers, not sure anymore.
However many have cut apart different filters and usually the construction differences are obvious to a lay person, real obvious.

K&N and Mobil 1 are the best, and I’m 90% sure they are made by the same manufacturer.
Wix is good, NAPA has different grades, and there is a big difference, NAPA gold is an excellent filter, the others not so much.
Fleetguard is excellent, Purolator is good and there premium filter is really excellent.

Differences are usually in amount of filter media, how the media is attached, bypass valve, backflow valve, best ones are silicone as is the sealing O ring, thickness of can if you have a high pressure oil system.
An early model Duramax engine will actually rupture a cheap filter on a cold day for example.

Sorry don’t have a valid link, but the Fram has the nickname of orange can of death. The often have marketing gimmicks like advertising a “truck” or special SUV filter etc., when there is no difference.
With filters you usually get what you pay for.

I looked and could not find a link between Wix and Fram so you are probably correct. I would swear I have seen both made in Gastonia, NC. One may have been making for the other, it was 40 years ago so maybe I need a filter change.

[a64pilot]

I was a little quick to say Wix and Fram weren’t the same manufacturer.
It’s possible I guess, what I should have said is they are obviously made to completely different standards.

[ValiantV]

If the engine got up to temperature abnormally fast, I'd suspect a cooling system issue rather than an oil system issue. That likely explains why your engine "siezed", fut was able to be freed up without major disassembly.

As to who you go after, your mechanic is your likely suspect, not the filter manufacturer.

[hellosailor]

There's almost as much FUD in the oil filter business as there is in the mattress business. You know, the fact that some of us grew up and survived when sleeping on mattresses that were substantially less than 14" thick is astounding! (sigh)

Some prime filter makers, like Mann (OEM for German car and truck) don't put the cellophane seal over their open end. Others do, and if you've ever found bugs or spiders nesting in something or other...the cellophane is cheap insurance against that.

Mobi1 (who unexplainedly tripled their prices and went to a fancy plastic box instead of cardboard) some five years ago, and Bosch (who must contract out to someone in the US market) both used to have specs on the box, claiming something like 99% filtering down to two microns, while other filters only did 90% at 10 microns, or something like that, sounding real different.

But when you think about it, not knowing how many microns the factory spec FOR THAT ENGINE is, the numbers are all meaningless anyway. If ten microns won't clog any oil passages, and that manufacturer is happy with it, maybe that's enough?

I know Fram are villified, but an old machinist I knew, who did great work that didn't need remakes, used to swear by them. Last time I checked, they were also guaranteed to be OEM quality. And the neat little black rubber coating is ingenious, gotta give 'em credit for that.(G)

I've seen all kinds of oil filter tests--but nothing that compared what the filter does, to what the engine manufacturer demands, to what might be objective issues for "better than OEM" in terms of actual engine wear.

And then many times, unless you're laying up inventory of spares, you've got to settle for what's on the shelf.

[a64pilot]

I want to think that 5 micron and larger is the agreed upon size of a particle that will wear bearings, not sure though, that is memory and you know how that is.
Interesting discussion
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...rticles_Cause_

Remember bypass filters? amsoil and others had excessively fine filters, so fine that only a portion of the oil could flow through, the rest bypassed. The theory was that modern good syn oil didn’t break down, just got dirty, if you could filter it extremely fine then it would last almost forever, just change filters.

The engine used on the AH-64 and the Blackhawk, the GE T700 series engine was the only thing we didn’t oil sample in the Army, everything else was, all trucks and everything else that flew that was oil lubricated.
GE said their filter was so fine that oil analysis wouldn’t show anything. Not being a believer I pulled a couple of samples and had them run, and you know what? There were essentially zero wear metals present.
So it seems it’s possible to filter almost everything out of your oil.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

There's almost as much FUD in the oil filter business as there is in the mattress business. You know, the fact that some of us grew up and survived when sleeping on mattresses that were substantially less than 14" thick is astounding! (sigh)

Some prime filter makers, like Mann (OEM for German car and truck) don't put the cellophane seal over their open end. Others do, and if you've ever found bugs or spiders nesting in something or other...the cellophane is cheap insurance against that.

Mobi1 (who unexplainedly tripled their prices and went to a fancy plastic box instead of cardboard) some five years ago, and Bosch (who must contract out to someone in the US market) both used to have specs on the box, claiming something like 99% filtering down to two microns, while other filters only did 90% at 10 microns, or something like that, sounding real different.

But when you think about it, not knowing how many microns the factory spec FOR THAT ENGINE is, the numbers are all meaningless anyway. If ten microns won't clog any oil passages, and that manufacturer is happy with it, maybe that's enough?

I know Fram are villified, but an old machinist I knew, who did great work that didn't need remakes, used to swear by them. Last time I checked, they were also guaranteed to be OEM quality. And the neat little black rubber coating is ingenious, gotta give 'em credit for that.(G)

I've seen all kinds of oil filter tests--but nothing that compared what the filter does, to what the engine manufacturer demands, to what might be objective issues for "better than OEM" in terms of actual engine wear.

And then many times, unless you're laying up inventory of spares, you've got to settle for what's on the shelf.

Amen on the black rubber coating. It keeps some idiot from using a strap wrench to tighten one.

[hellosailor]

Memory?
Oh, right. Thought and Memory being the common (and not quite correct) translations for the names of Odin's ravens.

Talk about "erl" and Blackhawks...you might remember The New Army ran some intense tv ad campaigns. One had a real Bubba with a deep accent saying as how he's couldn't change the erl on his car, but now the Army done and trained him how to maintain this here Blackhawk helicopter.

I'm sure someone thought it was a great recruiting ad, but it made me want to stay well away from anything the new Army was maintaining. Erl just ain't that hard to change.

I suspect GE has some experience in these matters. They used to have their toll free "cool line" which could connect you to any division (like 3M still does) from nuclear powerplants to home dishwashers. Fifty or sixty years of diesel-electric locomotives probably has given them some experience with erl filtering.(G)

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Taipe

I would contact your marine insurance company and see what they recommend.

Insurance typically doesn't cover engine maintenance.

Now if the prop hit something...the force traveled thru the transmission and somehow damaged the engine, you have an insurance claim...but that's pretty unlikely given the explanation.

Given the follow up responses, the oil filter may be a red herring. The engine didn't seize and it's unclear what caused it to stop.

[Dymaxion]

Pistons and their rings are usually lubed by splash from oil sump onto the bottom of the barrels. Higher performance engines have squirters tapped into an oil gallery that shoot up under piston crown. Oil also travels up to little end piston pin via connecting rod passages. If your oil pressure gauge was installed in the same hole as the factory idiot light switch i would assume pressure read there would reflect true pressure in the system as per manufacturer. 20-25 psi is low for full rpm, indicating wear, but not critically low. The fact that you were able to recover the engine without taking off the head and pounding the pistons free with a block of hardwood and a mallet makes me suspect that your pistons were getting lubed, but you had an overheat. Alloy pistons expand more than steel barrels, and when badly overheated can bind nicely. But if no major galling takes place they can cool and the seizeup releases. Maybe you had an airlocked region in the block, does the coolant warning system work as designed? Fresh/raw water pumps all good?

[Olly75]

Thank you all for the responses, I'm arranging a specialist to come and take a look. But it's been said here a few times that the engine didn't seize, can someone define what sizing is then?!

On the coolant front, no alarms were sounded and I also replaced the sender and gauge to be certain it was performing correctly. As yet I've not had to add any further coolant, but is there and other method to check for air locks? There is a hot water tank attached, but have bled it and seems to be flowing correctly.
Also the engine pumps water like a trooper.

[Olly75]

As an update......

Had another mechanic down who phoned a specialist to talk through my issue and the consensus seems to be that even if the filter was bad of or the oil lines crossed the bypass (there might actually be a bypass on the pump itself, but I was listening third hand to the convo) would have allowed the oil to flow anyway. As to what caused the seize (or the sudden stopping of the engine), they think that one of the rebuilt injectors was stuck open and filled one of the cylinders with diesel, in effect causing a diesel lock.

As the engine is now running smoothly it appears nothing was bent or broken so I am waiting on the oil analysis. If this confirms diesel in the oil then I have a culprit!

As to the low oil pressure, the sender and gauge are new and still reading low (circa 15 to 20 lbs) however the mechanic attached a mechanical unit and this reads 35 lbs at idle and 50 with the throttle open, so all good!

Which leads me, long windedly, to my next question. After some diagnostics and alot of head scratching, the voltage at the oil gauge reads 12 ish, but at the sender reads between 6 and seven. This is causing the low oil pressure reading. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this voltage drop? we checked the wire, and there are no issues with it but as soon as its attached to the sender the voltage halves.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Olly75

............

Which leads me, long windedly, to my next question. After some diagnostics and alot of head scratching, the voltage at the oil gauge reads 12 ish, but at the sender reads between 6 and seven. This is causing the low oil pressure reading. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this voltage drop? we checked the wire, and there are no issues with it but as soon as its attached to the sender the voltage halves.

First up, it depends on the sensor type but I am assuming you have a single wire sensor rather than 2 or 3 wire sensor (there several different ways to read oil pressure electrically).

With a single wire sensor, the voltage should be less than what is at the gauge. The degree that it is less is dependant on the design of the system and the oil pressure present when you are taking the voltage reading.

Can you supply more details of the sensor and gauge?

Is the voltage varying between no pressure, idle pressure and normal operational rpm (it should)?

[hellosailor]

As Wotname said. I don't know the system you have, but usually "senders" are just variable resistances. Typically they vary (heat, oil pressure, whatever) from zero to 300 ohms, and they are grounded into the engine block. One potential issue is that the engine block may not be grounded (bonded by multiple straps) to the battery ground. Normally there is one (positive) wire going from the sender to the gauge, and then the other side of the gauge is connected either to battery positive, or in better systems, to a dedicated 12 volt regulator shared by the gauges, so it really sees "12.000" volts regardless of the alternator and charging state. Those could well be internal chips rather than separate regulators now.

So it is pretty much:

battery ground - engine block - sensor - gauge - (gauge regulator) - battery positive.

As the resistance of the sensor changes, the voltage at the gauge changes, so all the gauges really are, are voltmeters calibrated to read in "degrees" or something else. If you take the sensor wire off the pressure gauge and ground it to the block, the gauge should go off the scale, as it the sensor had gone to zero ohms. If you can find the spec for your sensor, and any handy multimeter, you can just check the resistance to see if the new sender is bad.

Sometimes they ship bad from the factory. Sometimes, you get the wrong part number and they look perfectly good, but aren't right for your gauge. If someone replaced the gauge or engine in the past--you could easily just have mismatched parts.

[Olly75]

The sender and gauge are both made by stewart warner, and it turns out have to be matched correctly. So went back to the shop and they swapped the sender for the right model and now everything is working fine.

My wallet is just lighter from the time the mechanic had to spend trying to work out what was going on.....