Oily feeling gasoline that leaves a yellow residue after (eventually) evaporating??

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Did they do anything? Through what mechanism of action?

Originally Posted by thinwater

I said "reformulated." A change in composition. To say more would get deep into proprietary information and organic chemistry, but you can test them side-by-side for corrosion protection and see.

I don’t think the question was what is the specific difference in chemistry. I think it was do they actually do anything? Like, anything at all?

(Or is it just heavily marketed snake oil, like so many fuel additives seem to be)

If that’s actually proprietary, I feel like it’s safe to assume no.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by wyb2

I don’t think the question was what is the specific difference in chemistry. I think it was do they actually do anything? Like, anything at all?

(Or is it just heavily marketed snake oil, like so many fuel additives seem to be)

If that’s actually proprietary, I feel like it’s safe to assume no.

The results were in Practical Sailor magazine and were developed using ASTM methods.



Would it help if I discussed the difference between amines and carboxylic acids?


The composition of anti-fouling paints, epoxies, and even house paint are proprietary, and they work. searching SDSs will only reveal the hazardous ingredients, and the active parts are not. Only the solvent carrier.

[Seaward22]

Noticed yellow deposits in my leaf blower tank (2-stroke) when emptying it while working on it and running fuel through a kidney stone filter. When I get the new carb I’ll snap a picture. Use top tier Costco 10% ethanol (ethanol probably trashed the carb after many years). Run all fuel through that filter but if it’s an additive in solution… Haven’t had any problems with other gas motors (4-stroke outboard and lawnmower but I run these dry both >20 y/o) same fuel with stabilizer added.

[foreverfreedom]

It could be the 20% bio-ethanol fuel.

[Slacktime]

Morehead Gulf docks is a very busy high volume gas dock due to its location. I seriously doubt that they pumped stale gas.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Slacktime

Morehead Gulf docks is a very busy high volume gas dock due to its location. I seriously doubt that they pumped stale gas.

Could have easily been the first pump off a bad delivery. They don't make the gas there. Lol.

I had a tank full of water as my first fill-up ever on this boat. So you never really know.

It it seems weird, I think it's best to double check

[Shaneesprit]

Petrol is an Oil at the end of the day, and it’s yellow in colour, especially if it’s a little old. Petrol has a shelf life of a few weeks. 12 I think from memory it might be longer.
But even stale petrol mostly still works and doesn’t normally bother injectors to much.
If worried I would just top up somewhere else to mix it in

[Cynara]

When everything is fixed use a baja fuel filter to put diesel in your tanks. I don't think it works with gasoline though

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Slacktime

Morehead Gulf docks is a very busy high volume gas dock due to its location. I seriously doubt that they pumped stale gas.

This was my point also way up thread.

Chotu's world has simply closed in on him so he freaks out about anything having to do with his boat or engines

You see it on here all the time.

He just needs more stimulation for his brain.

You usually see it with solar and expensive batteries where the sailor is freaking out when his voltage is off by a couple tenth's of volts.

Discolored gas is a new one probably since most cruisers these days use diesel

[Seadarer]

Now this thread is in my wheel house. I don't normally comment on these threads since I'm only interested in discussion of empirical information, not opinion, but in this instance perhaps I can add something useful from an empirical basis.

For particulate in your fuel, either contamination like sand or particulate matter, or bio products, filter the fuel and it will then flow properly though the fittings and injectors.

For water in your fuel, use a water separating filter as most boats would already have installed. Once this is in place, then the engine will be fully protected from trying to burn water.

For other types of contamination like bogus mixtures (for instance a mixture of butane and heavy oil that will look like gasoline or diesel/jet but not perform at all), or someone who disposes of their used motor oil into their gasoline storage tanks before delivery to you, you have no protection as it takes a laboratory analysis to show what is going on. All you can do is either trust your provider, or move on to a different supplier as the lab tests are too expensive and slow to be of any use for protection at the consumer level.

It is not very satisfying to be this reliant on the manufacturer of the equipment and the fuel but it is routinely all around us. For instance, when you get on an airplane, you hope that the manufacturer made all the right equipment choices and when they are running bio-diesel you hope that they checked the fuel properties before you took-off. They do the tests - you hope they did it right. And the circle continues.

On an equally subtle level, the leaded fuels of the past provided corrosion protection inside engines, and when subsequently running aerated fuels (like ethanol added) they were subject to corrosion. This is mostly past us now as over time, engines are fabricated with modern metallurgy that is not subject to this type of corrosion. However, there is little that we as consumers can do here either if the seller if not forthright about what they are selling and we are not wary.

So, what to do about it all? It's either filter the fuel for water and particulate and run it; or recycle the fuel back to a seller and get new stock to repeat the process. The choices are simple and stark. The cost and consequences are your to enjoy.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Seadarer

It is not very satisfying to be this reliant on the manufacturer of the equipment and the fuel but it is routinely all around us. For instance, when you get on an airplane, you hope that the manufacturer made all the right equipment choices and when they are running bio-diesel you hope that they checked the fuel properties before you took-off. They do the tests - you hope they did it right. And the circle continues.

Well, here in the land of the free and the right to arm bears, we have the FAA. While their failings are legion, I believe the skies are safer due to their work.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This was my point also way up thread.

Chotu's world has simply closed in on him so he freaks out about anything having to do with his boat or engines

You see it on here all the time.

He just needs more stimulation for his brain.

You usually see it with solar and expensive batteries where the sailor is freaking out when his voltage is off by a couple tenth's of volts.

Discolored gas is a new one probably since most cruisers these days use diesel

My world has closed the in? Where do you go? You just sit there in one harbor in the Chesapeake saying you're afraid to go anywhere because you'll be too bored. How has my world closed in? it’s hundreds and hundreds and even thousands of times larger than your world. have you even left your state recently? How about your town? Talk about closed in. You don’t go anywhere.

don’t be a dope. Obviously you have almost no experience with this stuff. Yes, you sailed some Hobie cats for many years racing. Cool stuff. They don’t even have engines. Have you never got bad fuel? I sure have. More than once. Especially the first day that I started these engines. Brand new. They were destroyed by water in the fuel the very first time they were started.

and gasoline is more like a solvent typically. This gasoline was diesel-ish. It was greasy. No gasoline stains things yellow. Not unless it has been sitting for six years.

The nerve of you to tell me that my world has closed in. in psychology they call that projection. When someone says something about another person but it’s really about themselves. That’s what you’re doing. Projection. You live in the smallest world of anyone on this forum.

[Chotu]

I especially like your last line. "The cost and consequences are yours to enjoy."ha ha ha.

this is a good summary. I would agree. I have a Racor filter and fuel water separator in the system of course like any boat should.

however, it doesn’t protect you from water. That just protects you from the tiniest little bit of water. The first day I filled these tanks up and got all of that water that destroyed the engines, causing thousands in damage? It went right through the separator because it was all water. It just pumped right through there like it was fuel. It only protects you from about a pint of water maximum. So you can’t in my opinion be too confident in the fuel water separation. It’s only for a very small amount of water.

I still wish I knew what was in this gasoline. Because it was not normal. It burned. It got me 100 miles. But, it didn’t have the same texture as normal gasoline and of course it had that yellow dye or yellow additive in it. That you can see staining the deck. That’s not normal. It might be fine to use, but that’s not normal gasoline. Something is different about it. And the greasy spill is still there on the boat. It didn’t evaporate. It’s just greasy. Very odd. but it ran.

so I would recommend this gulf fuel docks. Especially because the owner was so nice. He was really concerned and called his supplier. And what it comes down to is the supplier really. Has nothing to do with the owner of golf docks. He’s a great guy. He was involved and concerned and took the time to call me and everything. I couldn’t say more about this guy and his business. I would recommend going to his fuel dock. If his supplier ever did cause a problem, you know he would be helping you solve that problem. He’s that good.

I will never know what is strange about this particular gasoline. I’ll never know the answer to this. No one will. but it was weird stuff.

And it’s funny you mention jet fuel. I was thinking about that today while I was flying. I was thinking how much tighter the regulations probably are on jet fuel because the problems are significant if the engine to go out.

Originally Posted by Seadarer

Now this thread is in my wheel house. I don't normally comment on these threads since I'm only interested in discussion of empirical information, not opinion, but in this instance perhaps I can add something useful from an empirical basis.

For particulate in your fuel, either contamination like sand or particulate matter, or bio products, filter the fuel and it will then flow properly though the fittings and injectors.

For water in your fuel, use a water separating filter as most boats would already have installed. Once this is in place, then the engine will be fully protected from trying to burn water.

For other types of contamination like bogus mixtures (for instance a mixture of butane and heavy oil that will look like gasoline or diesel/jet but not perform at all), or someone who disposes of their used motor oil into their gasoline storage tanks before delivery to you, you have no protection as it takes a laboratory analysis to show what is going on. All you can do is either trust your provider, or move on to a different supplier as the lab tests are too expensive and slow to be of any use for protection at the consumer level.

It is not very satisfying to be this reliant on the manufacturer of the equipment and the fuel but it is routinely all around us. For instance, when you get on an airplane, you hope that the manufacturer made all the right equipment choices and when they are running bio-diesel you hope that they checked the fuel properties before you took-off. They do the tests - you hope they did it right. And the circle continues.

On an equally subtle level, the leaded fuels of the past provided corrosion protection inside engines, and when subsequently running aerated fuels (like ethanol added) they were subject to corrosion. This is mostly past us now as over time, engines are fabricated with modern metallurgy that is not subject to this type of corrosion. However, there is little that we as consumers can do here either if the seller if not forthright about what they are selling and we are not wary.

So, what to do about it all? It's either filter the fuel for water and particulate and run it; or recycle the fuel back to a seller and get new stock to repeat the process. The choices are simple and stark. The cost and consequences are your to enjoy.

[rslifkin]

As much as we don't know exactly what's different about this particular load of gas, we do know that it seems to be well within the range of what the engines will accept.

Realistically, most gas engines aren't as picky as we're often told to expect. As long as the fuel is dry enough, not full of sediment, of adequate octane for what the engines require, and has a high enough vapor pressure to allow cold starting, it'll generally run fine. If there's something really funky about the fuel (like too much oil in it) you may see more carbon buildup or foul the plugs after a while. While diagnosing issues, I've run engines for a few seconds on nothing but carb cleaner for fuel. Without knowing the octane and stoich point of it, I wouldn't want to put an engine under load with carb cleaner for fuel, but it'll certainly run.

The biggest kind of stuff that's likely to get you into trouble is something like unexpectedly high ethanol content in an engine that doesn't have an O2 sensor and can't compensate for the resulting lean burn.

[Seadarer]

As to your question on what was in the gasoline, it can be any number of things but it is safe to say that no gasoline that meets any formal specifications will have this. Crude oil naturally contains a wide range of hydrocarbons, and the higher molecular weight fractions often are waxy and exhibit color (often brown, green or yellow). These are separated out in any refinery processing the oil into gasoline. It thus follows that it could be that someone mixed some crude oil or byproduct like wax directly into the gasoline resulting in the color. A refiner would never do this as it is too much of a reputational risk. Also, almost never would the final sales people do this either as it risks their business too much. But, someone like "Joe's light fingered gasoline transport services" in between just might.

The good news, as noted in my previous post, is that so long as you have filtered out the particulates and water all the rest of it including the yellow waxy stuff usually burns just fine. You have noted that the residue feels greasy making it more likely that is exactly what it is (although there is a broad range of what contaminant it might be). Notwithstanding, while you are consuming the contaminated tank fuel, your engine may not run at the right fuel:air ratio as the fuel composition is not correct. This can cause either some carbon deposits if too rich, but for a single tank full it will mostly burn itself off with the next proper fuel fill.

Originally Posted by Chotu

I especially like your last line. "The cost and consequences are yours to enjoy."ha ha ha.

this is a good summary. I would agree. I have a Racor filter and fuel water separator in the system of course like any boat should.

however, it doesn’t protect you from water. That just protects you from the tiniest little bit of water. The first day I filled these tanks up and got all of that water that destroyed the engines, causing thousands in damage? It went right through the separator because it was all water. It just pumped right through there like it was fuel. It only protects you from about a pint of water maximum. So you can’t in my opinion be too confident in the fuel water separation. It’s only for a very small amount of water.

I still wish I knew what was in this gasoline. Because it was not normal. It burned. It got me 100 miles. But, it didn’t have the same texture as normal gasoline and of course it had that yellow dye or yellow additive in it. That you can see staining the deck. That’s not normal. It might be fine to use, but that’s not normal gasoline. Something is different about it. And the greasy spill is still there on the boat. It didn’t evaporate. It’s just greasy. Very odd. but it ran.

so I would recommend this gulf fuel docks. Especially because the owner was so nice. He was really concerned and called his supplier. And what it comes down to is the supplier really. Has nothing to do with the owner of golf docks. He’s a great guy. He was involved and concerned and took the time to call me and everything. I couldn’t say more about this guy and his business. I would recommend going to his fuel dock. If his supplier ever did cause a problem, you know he would be helping you solve that problem. He’s that good.

I will never know what is strange about this particular gasoline. I’ll never know the answer to this. No one will. but it was weird stuff.

And it’s funny you mention jet fuel. I was thinking about that today while I was flying. I was thinking how much tighter the regulations probably are on jet fuel because the problems are significant if the engine to go out.