okay to run engine after after oil change and before layup?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Even in the “warmer” areas I’ve cruised, I aim for around -45ºC, just to be sure.

That’s fine however given the winter temp here never goes below 5 degrees and elsewhere I’ve had boats -17 , I reckon -45C would wipe out all life , convert the remainder to zombies. , block all roads . Last thing then on my mind is an ageing Volvo penta !

I use the expensive green Volvo cooling fluid in the fresh water ways. Definitely not pumping that through the raw water system and flushing the whole lot out the exhaust in the spring

[Wolfe10]

Also, when storing diesel fuel, add a BIOCIDE such as Biobar JF and completely fill the diesel tank to minimize condensation.


If storing summer grade fuel into below freezing temperatures, add an ANTI-GEL. PS brand is carried by most Walmarts.


Be sure to run the engine long enough after adding them that it has completely circulated through the engine.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

That’s fine however given the winter temp here never goes below 5 degrees and elsewhere I’ve had boats -17 , I reckon -45C would wipe out all life , convert the remainder to zombies. , block all roads . Last thing then on my mind is an ageing Volvo penta !

Yes... I've experienced -40ºC. It's not fun. I doubt even zombies would like it .

Simple point is, you gotta winterize for your climate. Hitting -20ºC in most parts of Canada during winter is not unusual, even in the more southern regions.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

Also, when storing diesel fuel, add a BIOCIDE such as Biobar JF and completely fill the diesel tank to minimize condensation.

If storing summer grade fuel into below freezing temperatures, add an ANTI-GEL. PS brand is carried by most Walmarts.

Be sure to run the engine long enough after adding them that it has completely circulated through the engine.

Condensation is mostly an old wives tale to explain diesel that had water in it when you took it on or you have a leak around the fuel fill. Run the numbers and tell us how much air has to pass thru the tank to get even a cup of water. I have. If it's more than a few drops by spring, something is seriously wrong.

Gelling also, isn't a big deal unless you plan to launch mid winter. The fuel will gel if it gets cold enough but once it warms up it will re-liquify. The anti-gel is targeted for someone like a pickup owner who goes and tries to start the truck when it's been sitting outside at -20F and the fuel won't flow.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes... I've experienced -40ºC. It's not fun. I doubt even zombies would like it .

Simple point is, you gotta winterize for your climate. Hitting -20ºC in most parts of Canada during winter is not unusual, even in the more southern regions.

I strenuously avoid areas where polar bears live and contain my sailing now to areas that are conducive to attractive ladies wearing little or nothing !!

All I know is when it -15 C. I couldn’t get out of my drive and the boat was fairly low down on my priorities. It’s survived without damage

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I strenuously avoid areas where polar bears live and contain my sailing now to areas that are conducive to attractive ladies wearing little or nothing !!

All I know is when it -15 C. I couldn’t get out of my drive and the boat was fairly low down on my priorities. It’s survived without damage

Yeah, in Greece, you can likely get away with weak antifreeze but having spent years in the only place where you go south from the continental USA to Canada, you want the full strength stuff here. Further north, doubly so.

[Wolfe10]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Condensation is mostly an old wives tale...

I am sure part of that depends on the climate where you store it. Along the Gulf coast where we keep our boat, we alternate between warm and humid with cold as cold fronts move south. With changes in temperature and barometric pressure, air goes in and out of the tank through the vent. As that warm, humid air is cooled, water condenses and settles below the diesel where it will never be "re-evaporated". Heck you can even see condensation on the inside of your house windows with the arrival of a cold front.


Certainly can't tell you the quantity of water-- would depend on volume of air in the tank, number of hot/humid cold cycles.


So, filling the diesel fuel tank and adding a biocide has some positive effect (my scenario) or is neutral (your scenario). Can't see any negative.

[rslifkin]

Automotive antifreeze is very toxic to mammals, but it does biodegrade like the pink stuff and they both present similar issues in water (neither is all that bad).

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

I am sure part of that depends on the climate where you store it. Along the Gulf coast where we keep our boat, we alternate between warm and humid with cold as cold fronts move south. With changes in temperature and barometric pressure, air goes in and out of the tank through the vent. As that warm, humid air is cooled, water condenses and settles below the diesel where it will never be "re-evaporated". Heck you can even see condensation on the inside of your house windows with the arrival of a cold front.


Certainly can't tell you the quantity of water-- would depend on volume of air in the tank, number of hot/humid cold cycles.


So, filling the diesel fuel tank and adding a biocide has some positive effect (my scenario) or is neutral (your scenario). Can't see any negative.

If it makes you feel better, go for it but I've run the numbers assuming 100% humidity and every molecule of water coming out of the air (worst case and not really possible) over a 6 month period assuming full replacement of the air each day (again, far less is likely due to temperature swings and with a single vent line tiny vent line, wind is unlikely to have much impact)...it simply doesn't add up to much in a small tank.

The condensation on your house windows is very different. There you have an air volume equivalent to 10's of thousands of gallons (a 2000sft house with 8ft ceilings will hold a bit more than 100,000 gallons) which can hold massively more moisture compared to say a 40 gal fuel tank half full with fuel (20 gal of air space or about 1/5000th the volume). Simply opening the door to go out, you may introduce several hundred gallons volume of air and most modern houses purposely allow some air leakage so you don't run out of oxygen. You also have people emitting humidity by breathing and cooking. All this is happening with a large temperature differential across the window...say 70F inside vs 0F outside. The fuel tank is unlikely to have more than a 20-30F temperature differential most days.

It's a relatively harmless old wives tale but doesn't change what it is.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Wolfe10

I am sure part of that depends on the climate where you store it. Along the Gulf coast where we keep our boat, we alternate between warm and humid with cold as cold fronts move south. With changes in temperature and barometric pressure, air goes in and out of the tank through the vent. As that warm, humid air is cooled, water condenses and settles below the diesel where it will never be "re-evaporated". Heck you can even see condensation on the inside of your house windows with the arrival of a cold front.


Certainly can't tell you the quantity of water-- would depend on volume of air in the tank, number of hot/humid cold cycles.


So, filling the diesel fuel tank and adding a biocide has some positive effect (my scenario) or is neutral (your scenario). Can't see any negative.

The condensation theory has been debunked in tests. When trying even unrealistic circumstances, the condensation added to fuel was near impossible to measure.

Also, a biocide is a poison that kills bacteria; it does nothing against water and does nothing for a tank that has no bacteria. When there is no actual infection with bacteria, use of a biocide is not recommended.
What does help is an enzyme based additive like Startron and it doesn’t have any detrimental effect on the engine unlike a biocide.

Edit: fancy marinas sell premium fuel with biocide already added. It is a fancy way of saying you get fuel that doesn’t have live bacteria from their underground fuel tank ��

[OS2Dude]

Originally Posted by hlev00

Is there any reason not to do the oil change before the engine is on the hard to avoid the two hour runtime with the new oil heading to the haul out?

I've never had to winterize to that extent, so forgive me if this sounds silly: I know you change oil to remove the dirt/acids that build up over a season, but would you not WANT to run the engine after an oil change to get the new, clean oil distributed throughout the engine before setting up for the winter? Would running the engine for two hours after a change be THAT detrimental to the condition of the oil?

[Goodxcharly]

Either way would work and won’t make any difference in the longevity of the engine. Myself I would go with the longer warmup and change the transmission fluid while your at it.
The important thing is that you changed the oil.

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

When there is no actual infection with bacteria, use of a biocide is not recommended. What does help is an enzyme based additive like Startron and it doesn’t have any detrimental effect on the engine unlike a biocide.

Never heard of biocides having any detrimental effect on engines. Can you explain?

[Redline452]

Originally Posted by hlev00

Thanks for all the quick feedback.
- @rslifkin Unfortunately I do have to run the engine to get it to the ramp in the morning so I need to do the antifreeze on the hard after hauling.

On my 4JH2-TE I motor to the TraveLift, then once they have the slings in position and just before they haul the boat, with the engine still running I open the seawater strainger/close the through-hull, and pour two gallons of antifreeze into the strainer (it comes out pale pink after the first, really pink by the second) then shut down. This is a "freshwater cooled" (as they say - it's Prestone) closed system with a heat exchanger.



I usually do my oil change a day or two before, but having run two hours, you could pump out the oil on the hard no problem.

[David Mathis]

If you run the engine dry, the impeller might be ruined. Just change the oil before hauling, it won't be a problem. There is no advantage to waiting until the absolute end of the season and the boat is on the hard. A few hours on the oil before putting the boat away for the season has no downside.



Green and other colors of closed system anti-freeze is toxic to marine life and highly toxic to life forms on the land. It is sweet so spillage will often will be consumed by dogs, cats, and wildlife. It causes kidney failure and an unpleasant death. Don't use it. The pink RV anti-freeze is non-toxic, equally effective, and much cheaper. There is no justification to using the green, yellow, or any other closed system anti-freeze for winterization.