Old engines little used

[Pugcat]

I am looking at purchasing a 25 year old catamaran with the original twin yanmar 3gm30’s and what I believe are sd20 saildrives. The thing is the owner says they only have about 50 hours on them (the boat is 1owner from new, out of the water for 3 years or so and little used previously).

I have read that Diesel engines like to be used but in this case it sounds like they wouldn’t even be broken in. Getting info re servicing etc from the owner is a struggle due to health/communication issues so my question is, how can I assess their condition and are they likely to be ok? Replacing everything would be more than half the boats value so would probably kill the deal.

Many thanks

[Bill O]

They could be good and just need new boots, etc. for the sail drives. Really all depends on how they were maintained/service while not in use.

Can you hook up a hose/constant water flow in a 5 gal bucket to the motors and run them on the hard to at least see if they run? Do you know a mechanic to look at them if/when you fire them up?

In the long run would assume you will need to do some work ($$/time) on the motors once they are being used and factor that into the purchase price.

[Pugcat]

Thanks for your reply. Running the engines is definitely the way to go but I am not in the same country as the boat at the moment. The owner said he would get some new start batteries so they could be checked but as I said, communication is tough - to the point that if this boat wasn’t the one that tugged my heart strings I would have walked away. Once back hopefully I can get to actually see the boat in the flesh and get a much clearer picture, I was just hoping to find out as much as possible beforehand.

[Bill O]

OK the distance thing makes more sense now.

I'm a hands on kinda person and like to physically inspect boats before purchase. We have traveled some good distances to see boats that looked good in photos and description, but we rejected them after a thorough in person inspection.

I know "the world" is different now, but based on experience would never 100% rely on others to give you the correct info for a major purchase. Just my 2 cents and others may be comfortable doing transactions from afar.

[Rumrace]

If they are lightly used the first concern is the condition of the fuel.
A little Yanmar new is 4K. They go to 10,000 for any serious service. About a 20,000 life span where new is cheaper than parts.
Other than freezing in the winter without antifreeze they don’t wear out parked. Because they are cast iron lawn mower motors the barrels will rust sitting like a disc brake on a parked car. This rust can damage rings or worse barrels. The only cleaner I trust is Captain Phab Carb and injector spray. After oiling each barrel with a heavy multiweight I’d turn each engine 4 full rotations by hand.
On a brand new engine I just put in a Donzi I pulled the distributor took out the plugs and spun the engine to load it with oil. It’s just a part of break in for any stored motor. You don’t want the upper end to do 200 hours wear before it has oil pressure. So check crank oil condition. If clean Pump it up to the upper end. Once an engine is soaked in its oil it’s ready to start.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Pugcat

I am looking at purchasing a 25 year old catamaran with the original twin yanmar 3gm30’s and what I believe are sd20 saildrives. The thing is the owner says they only have about 50 hours on them (the boat is 1owner from new, out of the water for 3 years or so and little used previously).



I have read that Diesel engines like to be used but in this case it sounds like they wouldn’t even be broken in. Getting info re servicing etc from the owner is a struggle due to health/communication issues so my question is, how can I assess their condition and are they likely to be ok? Replacing everything would be more than half the boats value so would probably kill the deal.



Many thanks

The first thing to do is check the oil level and rotate the engine manually. It’s almost a certainty that the raw water pump impeller is stuck tight and the blades permanently deformed so the engine might not roll over smoothly until the belts are slackened off.
If an engine has been laid up for a long time the wax component of the fuel ( or moisture in the fuel) can cause the injector pump plungers to stick in the barrels and the engine will ignore Governor and shutdown control so have an emergency shutdown plan in place BEFORE you or your mechanic hits the start button. The easiest plan is to loosen the HP fuel lines at the injectors and spin the engine over ( possibly decompressed) until fuel spurts out the end of the hp lines then pull the stop. There should be no fuel spurts with the stop control activated/pulled.
Pete.

[stormalong]

Since you can't easily be there hire a mechanic to do an engine survey. My primary concern would be the state of the outdrives - aluminum sitting in sea water.

[skipperpete]

Its been on the hardstand for 3 years.

[Pugcat]

Thanks all for your replies and some useful tips. The boat is actually in my home country (UK), I’m just not back there for a while. Fortunately the boat is only kinda sorta for sale (owner needs to sell due to health but doesn’t want to) so I feel like I have time until I get back.

I’ve never had saildrives before so a bit nervous of those so I like the idea of being present along with a diesel mechanic. They can do an engine survey and I can learn a few things.

[sail sfbay]

Get an engine survey before purchasing the sailboat. That is what I normally do.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

Get an engine survey before purchasing the sailboat. That is what I normally do.

My two cents:

I would NOT even attempt to crank the engine if it has been sitting for three years idle on the hard. I would fear internal corrosion in the cylinders.

I would remove the injectors, pour light weight oil in to each cylinder (or even transmission fluid), let it sit for a while then SLOWLY rotate the engine by hand via the crank shaft .

Once I was assured nothing was binding, change out the oil and reinstall the injectors.

Also, the condition of the engine coolant. Saildrive condition (as mentioned by others - also check the oil in drive to see if it has WATER in it...), and overall corrosion on outside of engine.

Heck, the starter and alternator may also be corroded internally.

Drain, clean and inspect the tank, drain all fuel lines, replace all filters.

cheers

[sail sfbay]

I have had 2 boats and truck stored on the hard for 3 years and all the engines started right up.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

Get an engine survey before purchasing the sailboat. That is what I normally do.

Ditto- if you do not know the engines- get a competent survey. The oil analysys will show catastrophic damage, but more so the age and low use would anticipate physically great engines but needing a complete seal/hose/injectors/etc go over.

This includes expectation of fuel replacement/cleaning lines/etc.

Ideally do the survey in person so the surveyor can explain all the small stuff he sees- which may both make your confidence or show you the reasons to walk away. (vs reading some fancy report)

[RexSnr]

My comment is that the sellers story sounds suss. The boat is 25 years old but the engines have only done about 50 hours?? 2 hours per year? Drop off 3 years on the hard and we go to 2.27 hours per year!! A 25 year old cat is likely to be fairly heavy since composites were not really used then. So, you would assume you would at least motor in and out of the marina on every outing. He must have been an awesome sailor, who sailed away from his mooring on every trip. Ditto on the return. He must also have always had solar panels to recharge his batteries while he sailed and consumed on board power. Also, a heavier boat cannot sail in light winds so steaming is often enough a necessity. Why did a person keep a boat 25 years if he only used it so little?
It seems to me not to be a believable story. Could the engines be poor and he is trying to point you away from them? History says that 25 year old diesels are NOT likely to be in good condition. I don't know anything about those models but are they heat exchanger cooled? 22 years of salt water would not be kind to them. You have already pointed out the cost of new diesels would probably write off the boat. He probably knows that, so has to really talk up the condition of the engines, but I think he might have gone too far and will get caught. The old engines are his problem. I would not take the risk of making them mine.
If I had to travel to see it, I would plan for new engines on this one and if it still stacked up, I would go see it. If it didn't. I'd move on. If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. There are plenty of boats out there.

[SVQuestOfPaget]

I wouldn't trust that the engines only have 50hrs on them... if you're seriously interested in the boat, have them checked out by a competent diesel person.

For what its worth, I recently prepped and ran a Yanmar 3gm30f that had been sitting for 10 years in a boat on the hard, winterized, but not fogged or otherwise treated for longterm storage. The injectors and injector pump were stuck from diesel that had turned to varnish inside. These were rebuilt, and the front end of the engine was removed to get the stuck injector pump out - the inside of the case looked brand new. I replaced the belts and rebuilt the raw water pump.

With the decompression levers open and no fuel flowing, I first hand turned the engine, then cranked for 5-10 seconds at a time to get oil flowing through. Did this several times a day for a few days, then added fuel and started the engine one cylinder at a time... I couldn't believe how quickly it wanted to start up.

That's just my experience with an old little used engine... I count myself as lucky.