Outboard Motor Woes (8hp, 2 Stroke)

[sabray]

Fair enough. My oars work every time don't need much and dink has a sculling notch so I can go about even if a oar fails with one oar dipped.

[mr-canada]

You certainly.wouldnt want to try rowing around here. You could be rowing with the power of grayskull and.still be cruising at a good 10 knots the opposite direction

[sabray]

Originally Posted by mr-canada

You certainly.wouldnt want to try rowing around here. You could be rowing with the power of grayskull and.still be cruising at a good 10 knots the opposite direction

What's wrong with the opposite direction that's where I really wanted to go anyway.
Really that's why I haven't sold the outboards yet I'm afraid I might really want one of them.

[SkiprJohn]

On the subject of the creamy colored gear oil. It means that you'll have to replace seals. If you removed the driveshaft from the bottom end and removed the gear shift lever from the gear casing then you could have damaged the seals when reinstalling. It doesn't mean the previous owner dorked it up. It could have been your recent impeller change.

If your drive shaft had an burs or even some grit where the seals are then it wouldn't take long for the seals to be totally wiped out.

Here in Hawaii its about $75 for new seals and $180 labor. I'd get a different engine. A used one is ok as long as it has a bit of a warranty.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by mr-canada

Sy_gilana

I will have to try your suggestions tomorrow when its light out. Power down here at the docks is cut because a major power transformer blew so no artificial light even.

Few things though

Your steps.1-5 i think wouldnt be possible on this motor. Heres how i did the impeller

1. Undo the three bolts holding the lower leg in place
2. Let the lower leg slide down exposing the impeller housing
3. Lift the driveshaft out of the lower leg, get the lower leg out of the way and drop the driveshaft out of the powerhead
4. Take the impeller housing cover off and pull off the shredded old impeller
5. Place the driveshaft back into the lower leg and put the key into the groove on the shaft
6. Lower the impeller down the shaft until it slipped over the key (grease new impeller)
7. Put gasket maker around impeller and drop impeller cover back on
8. Carefully raise lower leg into the powerhead ensuring the driveshaft and tube for the impeller to push water up line up and connect
9. Turn prop or flywheel to ensure driveshaft is engaged
10. Replace 3 mounting screws for lower leg

What i missed that i now realize was to remove the nylon tab connecting the shifter to the gear shifting rod (so i could drop the whole assembly to make changing the impeller easier rather than doing it with the lower leg hanging by the shifting rod)

When i was messing with the linkage connecting the shifter to the gear shifting rod i did not see any notches or adjustment screws under the cowling. I wasnt looking for one though i was just trying to get the shifter moving the rod again, but i was looking pretty close as it was a trick to figure out

When you said you did this.

Originally Posted by mr-canada

Making matters more fun now theres creamed coffee colored goop oozing out of the prop, which i can assume is gear oil mixed with water. I never took the prop off in putting in the new impeller so i can only assume this problem existed before i even bought the boat... When the mechanic replaced the gear oil last summer he tried to drain the old stuff out and what was in there was high pressure water and metal shavings.

i might be off the water until i can just buy a new motor, this thing is cursed it seems

I was thinking you might find this.

I think you need some "garage time" with this motor. A good diagram. A shop manual.

I can't think of any other way I could help if saving dollars is part of the equation.

On the replacement discussion.

I wish I could get a two stroke. My Honda 15 is nice and my Mariner 6 was a pain. Both acted a lot better when I started feeding them ethanol free gas. Ethanol related problems are the bane of small motors today. All because of politics.

Oops.

[mr-canada]

You are figuring because i took the driveshaft out of the lower leg that is why im getting gear oil and water oozing out of the prop? I actually ran this engine for several hours on the water before getting back and seeing this, i dont doubt your abilities butndont understand how he driveshaft would be the plug holding the gear oil inside the lower leg and how.removing it would bust all the seals. i was prerty careful, but i dont know what it looks like inside that lower leg so i wouldnt know what i could have done to cause gear oil to ooze out the propeller

You would think that they would make these frigging things easier to service. Im supposed to replace the impeller every 3 years in salt and 5 years in fresh. My fish tanks have larger impellers that are easier to service than this motor... Couldnt they have just used a side plate and for the gear oil a resovoir? Whoever designs these motors either knows something i dont know or they wanr to see mechanics make money

[mr-canada]

Originally Posted by sabray

What's wrong with the opposite direction that's where I really wanted to go anyway.
Really that's why I haven't sold the outboards yet I'm afraid I might really want one of them.

Haha

Except here the opposite direction is a foot and a half of water on either side of the emergency dredge at a five foot tide in the section where the creek dumps silt in the channel. With a five foot keel not fun. Been there done that drank the beer and ate the sandwiches for six hours until the tide floated me back up

[CarinaPDX]

I am guessing that the exhaust comes out of the propeller hub, as it does on most outboards. While leaking oil can come out of the seals for the (short) propeller shaft, I suspect that is not what is happening here. Having accessed the water pump and clearly disturbed the shifter rod that enters the lower unit from the top, it is quite possible that the seals there are leaking, with the oil then running down and out the exhaust at the prop. I still haven't read anything that points to the PO other than your suspicions.

I would be very surprised if this motor can't be made to work, with a little knowledgeable effort, assuming the dogs aren't damaged. The seal kit should still be available. If you do have to open the lower gear case that may be the end of it: they tend to sieze up with corrosion. I agree that you should stop using it until it is fixed or you can just kiss it goodbye. If you are mechanically inclined then get the manual and have at it; if not then find a good mechanic and get it fixed or find someone who will give you something for it and buy a new one. Having a mechanic come to repair an 8hp outboard seems to me a crazy waste of money: normally you should take it to a shop, not pay them to drive back and forth.

I like the older 2-strokes, and I continue to repair my old 15hp Merc. It weighs 75lbs, which is a LOT less than a 15hp 4-stroke and still less than a 9.9. I am not a mechanic, but when I buy a new engine (or car for that matter) I always buy the factory service manual and parts list if available (often not the case as the parts are now online - so download the explosions/lists). On one occasion a mechanic declared the engine was "kaput"; in fact, the rings were frozen with carbon (bad gas) and repair was simply dismantling, replacing rings and seals and reassembling. Much better than buying a new engine...

Good luck,

Greg

[sabray]

Originally Posted by mr-canada

Haha

Except here the opposite direction is a foot and a half of water on either side of the emergency dredge at a five foot tide in the section where the creek dumps silt in the channel. With a five foot keel not fun. Been there done that drank the beer and ate the sandwiches for six hours until the tide floated me back up

It was the opposite wrong way I was heading not that wrong way.
Tongue in cheek. Prefer the 2 stroke but row except when its uphill the wrong way in the opposite direction.

[nimblemotors]

Send that 8hp thing down here, can probably fix the lower end and put electric motor on it. I despised my Honda 4-stroke 8hp outboard on my sailboat, and sold it to a fisherman going to Lake Tahoe where 2-strokes are not allowed.
Spent less building an electric one. Took it off when I sold that boat (btw, sold it for more than I paid without the motor )
Used a lot of stainless steel building it, been sitting in my shed for years now.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by mr-canada

You are figuring because i took the driveshaft out of the lower leg that is why im getting gear oil and water oozing out of the prop? I actually ran this engine for several hours on the water before getting back and seeing this, i dont doubt your abilities butndont understand how he driveshaft would be the plug holding the gear oil inside the lower leg and how.removing it would bust all the seals. i was prerty careful, but i dont know what it looks like inside that lower leg so i wouldnt know what i could have done to cause gear oil to ooze out the propeller

You would think that they would make these frigging things easier to service. Im supposed to replace the impeller every 3 years in salt and 5 years in fresh. My fish tanks have larger impellers that are easier to service than this motor... Couldnt they have just used a side plate and for the gear oil a resovoir? Whoever designs these motors either knows something i dont know or they wanr to see mechanics make money

P1 - Possibly just another "breakdown". Possibly not.
P2 - I have never seen a motor, car, boat, motorcycle or anything else that had design influence by a mechanic, that I could tell.

All just my opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Send that 8hp thing down here, can probably fix the lower end and put electric motor on it. I despised my Honda 4-stroke 8hp outboard on my sailboat, and sold it to a fisherman going to Lake Tahoe where 2-strokes are not allowed.
Spent less building an electric one. Took it off when I sold that boat (btw, sold it for more than I paid without the motor )
Used a lot of stainless steel building it, been sitting in my shed for years now.

Nice!!

How long before it kills a battery?
Will it plane my Jon boat?

[SkiprJohn]

My post about the creamy colored gear oil is just speculation about what might have happened. Don't accept the blame if you are blameless.

On my outboards the driveshaft goes into the gear unit through two seals. The shift rod also goes into the gear unit through a hole that has an o-ring for a seal. Any seal leak there will allow water to enter the gear housing and contaminate your gear oil. Only way to tell is to drain the gear oil and see what it looks like. I've changed seals in an Evinrude 4hp yachtwin and will never do it again. I had to cut the old ones out with a dremel tool. It was a very old engine so maybe you wouldn't have as hard a time.

Check that gear oil before you run it again.

You're right. They should make it easier to do the impeller change. Wish they did.

[mr-canada]

Carinapdx:

I agree with you, im sure that this thing could be made to run. The powerhead runs great thats three quarters of the battle.

Last year my mechanic tried to remove the prop but it was pretty seized, probably due to corrosion when it was on the bottom of the channel. I dont know how long it was down there.

While it may be somewhat cheaper to price out the replacement parts and rebuild the lower end, i think a whole new lower leg assembly and shift rod would probably run me three quarters of the cost of the engine my mechanic is willing to sell me for $1500 and when i factor in the time it will take to get the parts and get them installed im off the water for the rest of boating season anyways. Im not mechanically uninclined, but not particularly inclined either. Doing a build like that will inevitably come along with needing to buy a raft of small items like gasket maker, odd andle ratchet extensions and in the end i may not trust the motor like i need to.

Thats why im figuring i might give it to my mechanic and ask for a bit off the new one, he can probably fix it with new or used parts and turn a little profit.

Sabray:

I knew it.was tongue in cheek i laughed when i saw that

Nimblemotors:

I think this is the wrong motor to convert to electric. The powerhead works great and the gearbox and lower leg are trashed.

Interesting idea though, if it was the other way around i might have considered that. Power here is pretty cheap because its all hydro (6 cents / kw/h ) and removal of the fuel tanks would leave a lot of space for batteries. No more jerry can hassles and goodbye to all the noise and smoke.

Therapy:

While what you suggest is possible last year i noticed the coffee cream floaties last year when starting too. Plus there was the metal shavings and high pressure water in the lower leg when the mechanic tried replacing the gear oil, so water getting in there was already a problem. Maybe the lower seal problems were exacerbated by my changing the impeller, but i cant get the prop off due to corrosion and there was no other way to change the impeller by design.

I think this is just an old motor that needs a total lower end rebuild, these things wear out, its a mid 80s motor so these parts have been used for 30 years now. Im sure it can be restored but i doubt im the right man for the job. If i pay a mechanic to do it i may as well buy a new motor and save myself the time.

-----

Im interested in this debate about 2 vs 4 stroke. I was under the impression that 4 strokes are superior to two strokes. More reliable, easier to maintain, more fuel efficient, quieter, less pollution, no mixing gas. 2 stroke engines will always be superior for some applications requiring the engine to be operated at a variety of angles, like chainsaws and hedge trimmers and other similarly tasked handheld small engines.

Is the main complaint against 4 strokes their smaller carb venturi getting gummed up with ethanol in the fuel? I always disconnect the fuel line and run the engine until it stops if im not back up to the boat the following week, and everybody here at the yc raves about yammy four stroke outboards as the platinum outboard engine.

I did a walk around the docks just to see what kind of options are available on sailboats for outboards (remotes, etc) and save for a few sub 6 hp rigs, every other outboard mounted on a sailboat here is a grey yamaha 9.9 four stroke. And im the only one griping about engine troubles constantly two years in a row.

[Therapy]

Even running a small 4 stroke out of gas doesn't always do the job with the ethanol issue.

I used the throttle to try to really suck the last of it out. Tricky to do. Mediocre results.

If I could, I would buy a 2 stroke. Fewer parts, lighter, no valve adjustments, no oil changes, etc. Plus, I have never had issues adding oil to gas for my small engines. Seems a pretty simple operation to me. Magic Marker on the can. What is so hard?