Perkins 4.108 air filter

[model 10]

K&N filters can be cleaned and re-oiled. I once helped make air filters for PT-6 powered Thrush AG aircraft using K&N filter material. These filters get really dirty. Clean them with solvent and re-oil, over and over.

[a64pilot]

If you need to clean one, use the kit, or at least the right oil.
It’s the oil that is the magic, it’s sticky and catches dust. The cleaner is a water based degreaser. Let the clean filter dry throughly and apply oil, do not use compressed air as that will blow the gauge out.
https://www.pepboys.com/product/details/8564869/00135

I have run K&N filters forever, we used them on the AH-64’s environmental cooling system, and were developing them for the UH-60 main engines when I was at the test activity, and has been said Thrush crop dusters except for the Garrett powered ones have used Big K&N filters for maybe 20 years, and a turbine aircraft engine at high power suck an enormous amount of air, more than you might expect, it’s a huge amount of air.

[a64pilot]

K&N filter used on a Thrush.
I had my daughter showing how to clean one for a class I put together long ago. She is in College now

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2638715]K&N filter used on a Thrush.



Time is flying by. I believe we were the first to use K&N filter material in the Thrush almost 30 years ago. We built a fiberglass cowling with a"pitot" inlet and a custom K&N air filter. It worked well and lowered the EGT.

[a64pilot]

Record inlet?

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2638746]Record inlet?

Yes

[Water Dragon]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have run K&N filters forever, we used them on the AH-64’s environmental cooling system, and were developing them for the UH-60 main engines when I was at the test activity...

I used to work on HH-60G's. We had no filter or screen of any kind in the engine inlets, only plugs for when it was shut down. If there's a filter for them now, I'd be curious to see a picture...

[model 10]

I thought the T-700 had particle separators?

[Cheechako]

Mine never had anything but the metal screen. Dust is minimal on boats vs farms etc.

[hellosailor]

Think about this. On land, in a home, if you don't dust or clean you'll find a light coating of dust on everything after a month, right? But on a boat, who needs to dust?

The difference is that literally "dirt" is blown around, and that's mainly abrasive silicon dust, so engines running on land need the fine dust filter to keep it out. Once you get coastal or offshore, there's no dirt dust, no pollen, the need for a real air cleaner element pretty much goes away.

OTOH, if you send out some of your engine oil for analysis and it comes back high in silicon--you're still getting dirt in the engine and an air filter might help. Odds are that will not be an issue. Blackstone Labs are the goto guys, about $25 by mail in the US.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Ecos

I thought the T-700 had particle separators?

They do, it’s called the IPS system or inlet particle separator, it’s a swirl built into the suck side of the motor and has what is called an IPS blower that vacuums off the outside of the swirl. It was ineffective below about 70% Ng if memory serves and the problem we ran into in SW Asia was the dust was so fine, it had no mass, so it wasn’t centrifuged out, it passed right through. Didn’t hurt the compressor so much as it glasses the burner can and covered cooling passages in the turbine blades. ITT didn’t rise, but your turbine blades would get burned up cause the cooling air holes were clogged.
This stuff was as fine as flour.
So we had to tear the hot sections apart and hand scrub the turbines in plastic buckets with a brush and soapy water. It worked as did removal of the spark igniters and flushing the hot section with the same gas path we used to flush the compressor, not as effective as the brush and hot soapy water though.

Originally Posted by Water Dragon

I used to work on HH-60G's. We had no filter or screen of any kind in the engine inlets, only plugs for when it was shut down. If there's a filter for them now, I'd be curious to see a picture...

We were working on them at the Test Activity at Ft Rucker in 2002 after I retired I went to work there as a Contract Test Pilot.
I don’t know if they were fielded or not, big boxy things mounted over the suck side of the engine.

On edit, apparently they were fielded. I only stayed at the Test Activity for a year, then went to work building Crop Dusters
I was AH-64, not UH-60, so I didn’t fly it or anything, just saw it on the flight line
http://www.emea.donaldson.com/en/air...ary/068981.pdf

[Water Dragon]

Thanks for the link, a64. Never saw those before. Funny how this thread went from a 50-hp marine diesel to an almost 2000-hp turbine. I wonder how fast my sailboat would go with a T-700. With a big enough propeller and some wings, maybe it would fly.

[a64pilot]

Threads drift, and I’m bad about drifting them.

I still think a Boat should have an air filter, all engines should have an air filter, no reason not to.
Same with an oil filter, although there are many engines without them, ones with them seem to last longer though.

Oh, and we dust our boat all the time and vacuum the thing too, and the vacuum fills up.
Maybe it’s because we have an old boat?

[hellosailor]

Given that Florida regularly gets significant dust from the dust storms in the Sahara, and that IS an ocean away...you may have a point there. Dust damage versus inevitable performance loss. Possibly more of an issue with turbocharged engines, since they're less tolerant of any particles.

From what I understand of the Perkins, as long as it gets a cuppa tea every afternoon by four, it will remain faithful and continue to run without protest, pretty much forever. :-)

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Water Dragon

Thanks for the link, a64. Never saw those before. Funny how this thread went from a 50-hp marine diesel to an almost 2000-hp turbine. I wonder how fast my sailboat would go with a T-700. With a big enough propeller and some wings, maybe it would fly.

Or, maybe, it already would, ergo the name of our boat

Meanwhile, my apologies for the late entry; I was on the road rather than the water, where my computer at my nav resides with this info...

We have a 4-154 and have adapted a Donaldson filter to it. I made notes along the way, and links to pix of the installation (locations to hunt, really, as I wasn't making subdirectories of each project as I do now, at that time.

It completely obliterated my intake howl, making the engine room very much quieter. It also DOES catch a notable amount of dust/dirt/belt residue/whatever, so we would not be without it.


Here's my notes from a discussion a few years ago:

-----Original Message-----
From: Flying Pig
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2015 10:24 AM Subject: Donaldson Filter
Parts and vacuum discussion

We use Rotella also.

But Michael D Rosner's comment reminds me that I've done an upgrade
which
incorporates the vac line concept.

Donaldson sells a variety of filters; the one I have absolutely kills
engine
noise. It's designed for a truck, and has/d a receiver for a vacuum
gauge
(how truckers figure out how to change the filter) which I drilled out
to
larger, and did the same sort of connection.

You can play with that hole size to achieve the balance of not only no
blowby but keeping internal pressure off the rear seal. One of the
folks
who found my comments in Cruisers Forum or maybe SSCA did that with
great
success, and...

One of his buddies with a 4-107 overdid it; he claims they sucked 4
quarts
of oil out of the engine before they discovered it. YMMV because it
sounds
so outrageous, but I believe him to be otherwise credible, and his is
a
first-person story (his buddy and he was involved).

You can see some pix of the installation, both before and after this
one, by
clicking on the "next" or "previous" on the bottom right and left of
the
page:

Pictures: Flying Pig Interiors

The Donaldson intake adapter is rubber and eventually failed from
oil-weakness; I found a much better and cheaper, too, source for
adapters; I
bought two, but they're multi-layer reinforced hose rather than a
simple
piece of rubber. I very much doubt I'll ever need the spare.

Here are my notes from that selection, along with all the PNs for a
system:

Bought replacement from
Tube Reducer

Silicone Intake Systems, Inc.
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 82872
Detailed Invoice:
https://www.siliconeintakes.com/acco...order_id=82872
Date Ordered: Saturday 08 September, 2012

Products
------------------------------------------------------
2 x Silicone Reducer, 2.5" to 2.25" - Blue (SIL000006) = $19.98
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $19.98
Standard Domestic Shipping/Handling (USPS Priority Mail: 2-3 days):
$7.99
Total: $27.97

4 layers of hose reinforcement - I doubt I'll ever need another, but I
have
a spare...

Here are the part numbers and website info
https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/W...087&item=16097
for my installation as shown in the picture gallery above:

Donaldson FPG06, Air Cleaner = G065433

Bracket Assy. = H00844

Primary Filter = P822768

Adapter for intake = P104090

All sources show rubber. Oil degrading?? Try neoprene or Buna
2.5/2.25"
adapter search

https://www.broadwaytotalpower.com/i...t=04&class=035

http://www.niagarafiltration.com/sea...rtNo=NF30-2526

Compare Prices, Reviews and Buy at NexTag

http://www.fuelinjection.net/donalds...e_adapters.htm

http://www.partfindermarine.com/sear.../Quantity.desc

Hose, Pipe, Tube, Lubrication and Railing Fittings P10383, P10-4089, P10-4090, P10445, P10-4533, P105-1.5NZ, P10-5168, P105-2.5NZ, P105-2NZ, P10531, P10532, P10551-101, P10-5547, P10-5548, P10-5643, P10589, P1061, P10610, P10-6734, P1068. Get Quote &

Spareco Exports | RP Wallis Wholesale - TRUCK, BUS, EARTHMOVING, AG, & MARINE SPARES

https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/W...128&item=30956

https://www.google.com/search?q=dona...p.r_qf.,cf.osb


My apologies for thread drift!

L8R

Skip