Perkins 4-108 damper plate and starter issues

[doog]

PhotosNewer style Perkins 4-108 which runs great, but on shut down Id get this clunk which I learn is the damper plate becoming worn and then I had sudden stoppage that forced me to remove the engine and open the bell-housing. I seriously worried the flywheel had fallen off, but no. Not that!
And here I am with the damper plate, clearly getting sloppy and yet what happened was unrelated to that. It seems a piece of metal fell off the starter which is a gear reduction aftermarket unit that worked great. And I have a mangled piece of steel that looks like a part of starter and its going back to the maker for evaluation.
My main question for the great forum resources is how to evaluate and inspect the damper plate for wear and serviceability and leads on possible sources of a replacement to work with the little Hurth transmission.
Posting here from the laptop and will add photos to the post from my phone by way of edit function.
Thanks everyone for a great resource and Happy Easter! (okay the upload system is a bit involved with this, anyway happy to share photos but Its a bit of a task on here. Manage attachments and file types and so on...)

[Engine man]

CLOSELY inspect the spline for wear, on the damper / drive plate AND on the transmission input shaft. Many old plates and / or transmissions have worn splines. The spline is in the center of the plate, it is a "socket" that accepts the transmission input shaft. The input shaft has spline "teeth" along it's length, that correspond to the spline teeth of the drive plate. If any spline teeth are worn, it will accelerate wear, as the parts are now hammering against each other whenever the engine is running. Also check the springs for damage [broken or very rusty] and the "windows" in which they fit. Worn windows will allow hammering, which must be avoided. Fix this problem by installing a new drive plate.

You should seriously consider installing a new drive plate when installing a new transmission.

How old [ how many operating hours] is your drive plate? What exact model Hurth transmission do you have? Joe

Originally Posted by doog

PhotosNewer style Perkins 4-108 which runs great, but on shut down Id get this clunk which I learn is the damper plate becoming worn and then I had sudden stoppage that forced me to remove the engine and open the bell-housing. I seriously worried the flywheel had fallen off, but no. Not that!
And here I am with the damper plate, clearly getting sloppy and yet what happened was unrelated to that. It seems a piece of metal fell off the starter which is a gear reduction aftermarket unit that worked great. And I have a mangled piece of steel that looks like a part of starter and its going back to the maker for evaluation.
My main question for the great forum resources is how to evaluate and inspect the damper plate for wear and serviceability and leads on possible sources of a replacement to work with the little Hurth transmission.
Posting here from the laptop and will add photos to the post from my phone by way of edit function.
Thanks everyone for a great resource and Happy Easter! (okay the upload system is a bit involved with this, anyway happy to share photos but Its a bit of a task on here. Manage attachments and file types and so on...)

[doog]

Thanks so much for your input Engine Man. Yes done that and I see the above and its all fine but has a bit of play. And my real issue was a flooded bell housing that got filled with bilge mud and then when I ran the engine it sprayed the housing because of centrifugal force and Im pulling the flywheel now to change the rear seal. And Im feeling its only smart to replace the damper plate now although its pefectly servicable and has about 500 hours on it since new. Im just fortunate the flooding didnt corrode the splines to the plate and make it unremovable but it slipped off OK and the transmission seems fine with fresh oil in it now, and no evidence of water in the engine oil either. It was just a blocked bilge drain which caused the water to back up under the engine. Engine stoppage I discovered was due to a failed starter part. So its a Hurth HWB 250-3R transmission. And it has the approximately 32 or 36 teeth, I just counted a quarter of the teeth and its about 8.

Any good leads on a damper plate with a nice tight operation for smooth shifts and reducing that clank I would greatly appreciate. And thanks so much!

existing plate is a Kuppl Seite / F and S. If this is useful, supplied with the transmission dealer originally.

[BozSail]

I got a new damper plate for my Perkins 4-108 engine with Hurth transmission from:
Foley Engines. (800) 233-6539.
foleyengines.com
I believe they are located in Massachusetts, USA.

[doog]

Boz Sail was it?
I found the same original damper plate for just over $200 out of Washington State just North of me, worked great. It made no difference and the sound was another issue related to the starter. But good to have it replaced as the old on was indeed worn. And another note is that I was losing one of the attach bolts with it backed halfway out and this isnt uncommon I find. So the new ones went in with threadlocker.
I think Foley is the outfit that sells spray paint for $50 per can and other items ridiculously overpriced. I hope you got a decent price. The fellow at Transatlantic Deisel (TAD) is a lot more reasonable on his offerings. And truly knowledgeable. He cleared up my starter issue and also clarified other Perkins questions with authoritative expertise regarding aftermarket fuel pumps and timing and cleaning the injectors, no games and no $900 dollar starter deals!

[Farlander]

What was the outcome? I have a Perkins 4.107 with some growling noise at low rpm and a bit of vibration.

I talked to an expert who said to absolutely inspect the damper plate, I would never have guessed it could ever go bad...

On start up, my starter often disengages after the first crank or two. Sound familiar?

Guess Im pulling the starter tonight.

Any knowledge appreciated!

[doog]

Originally Posted by Farlander

What was the outcome? I have a Perkins 4.107 with some growling noise at low rpm and a bit of vibration.

I talked to an expert who said to absolutely inspect the damper plate, I would never have guessed it could ever go bad...

On start up, my starter often disengages after the first crank or two. Sound familiar?

Guess Im pulling the starter tonight.

Any knowledge appreciated!

Happy to help!

I replaced my Delco-remy with one of those gear driven imported starters, as shared, then found the spacing critical and got the correct shim part from TAD. Not sure what your starter issue may be. The starter guys may be able to tell you in a shop setting.

I found a bolt on the balance disc had backed out and when I re-installed I used thread lock compound. But my disc was fine after only 600 hours use..Didnt need replaced but I did it anyway. It did have some play but was just normal wear.

Anyway the sellers of the aftermarket starters have no idea about installation. So you need to verify the throw and spacing is correct.

Good luck and whatever I can share, hope its helpful.

My entire issue was traced to a battery cable that looked fine but under the high load of the big direct drive starter, it pulled so many amps that it eventually melted out the battery post because of a bad soldier at the lead clamp. It could have been diagnosed by noticing how hot it was getting under load. And in fact my original starter was probably fine but it needed pulled apart anyway for other reasons I was happy to discover and correct.

[sgwright]

Just pulled my transmission to check damper plate after noticing significant chatter/rattle at idle in gear. Velvet Drive and 4.108 original from 1978 with ~5K hours. Link below shows what I found - very loose springs on the plate (and a nice oil bath for the flywheel... yes, I am doing the rear main seal...)

https://fb.watch/oHFr6e358w/