Perkins 4.154 mixing elbow blocked

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by GILow

I'm thinking...

Would it be easier and smarter simply to drill a hole and poke a bit of pipe through then glue it in place with one of those metal glues?

I suspect the elbow might be cast iron? I've never tried to tap a thread in cast iron, I feel like it might be difficult?

Matt for what its worth a piece of 3.2 mm 7x7 stainless wire a couple of hundred mm long in a drill and shoved up the tube (I am being nice ) white operating the drill is remarkedly effective at removing gunk.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Matt for what its worth a piece of 3.2 mm 7x7 stainless wire a couple of hundred mm long in a drill and shoved up the tube (I am being nice [emoji2]) white operating the drill is remarkedly effective at removing gunk. [emoji2]

Yeah, but this elbow is really weird. CF member "more" seems to understand it well. There's a kind of square slot on the output end and a nasty bend between that slot and the input tube.

Guess where it appears to be blocked?

[Oeanda]

From what I can see of your photo it looks similar to the mixing elbow we had blow out a couple years ago.



https://catalog.hydrasearchrecreatio...exhaust-elbows

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

From what I can see of your photo it looks similar to the mixing elbow we had blow out a couple years ago. Attachment 252466 Attachment 252465







https://catalog.hydrasearchrecreatio...exhaust-elbows

Yep, I think you have identified it.

[Oeanda]

The threaded section on the left side is an insert which did not come with the elbow. We had to buy that separately. It was rusted permanently into the elbow, as well as into the flange which bolts to the engine. I unbolted the flange from the engine and took it all ashore where I tried various methods to get it all unstuck for a couple days, before just cutting/hammering the elbow apart. Some more description here https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ion-59779.html

If this helps- I’m struggling badly to create this artistic rendering masterpiece on my phone but- as a cutaway view this is what you would be poking and prodding at to clear any blockage.

Not exactly high tech. There is not much in there to direct the water flow away from your engine. Presumably just enough to divert it 90°-ish, to the side a little and downhill and out. Hopefully. When I took it apart I was surprised to see how crappy the system looked but since the previous elbow had lasted about 20 years we just went ahead and replaced with the same thing.

You may be able to clear it by poking, but be aware you might just break that entire section right out (the part which diverts the water), which would probably be bad…

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

I'm thinking...

........

I suspect the elbow might be cast iron? I've never tried to tap a thread in cast iron, I feel like it might be difficult?

Drilling and tapping cast iron is easy as falling overboard off a log. Much easier than mild steel. The high carbon content in cast iron acts as a lubricant.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

The threaded section on the left side is an insert which did not come with the elbow. We had to buy that separately. It was rusted permanently into the elbow, as well as into the flange which bolts to the engine. I unbolted the flange from the engine and took it all ashore where I tried various methods to get it all unstuck for a couple days, before just cutting/hammering the elbow apart. Some more description here https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ion-59779.html

If this helps- I’m struggling badly to create this artistic rendering masterpiece on my phone but- as a cutaway view this is what you would be poking and prodding at to clear any blockage.

Attachment 252468Not exactly high tech. There is not much in there to direct the water flow away from your engine. Presumably just enough to divert it 90°-ish, to the side a little and downhill and out. Hopefully. When I took it apart I was surprised to see how crappy the system looked but since the previous elbow had lasted about 20 years we just went ahead and replaced with the same thing.

You may be able to clear it by poking, but be aware you might just break that entire section right out (the part which diverts the water), which would probably be bad…

This sort of post is EXACTLY why I.come back to CF for help again and again.

Thank you.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Drilling and tapping cast iron is easy as falling overboard off a log. Much easier than mild steel. The high carbon content in cast iron acts as a lubricant.

This one is pretty good too.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

The threaded section on the left side is an insert which did not come with the elbow. We had to buy that separately. It was rusted permanently into the elbow, as well as into the flange which bolts to the engine. I unbolted the flange from the engine and took it all ashore where I tried various methods to get it all unstuck for a couple days, before just cutting/hammering the elbow apart. Some more description here https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ion-59779.html

If this helps- I’m struggling badly to create this artistic rendering masterpiece on my phone but- as a cutaway view this is what you would be poking and prodding at to clear any blockage.

Attachment 252468Not exactly high tech. There is not much in there to direct the water flow away from your engine. Presumably just enough to divert it 90°-ish, to the side a little and downhill and out. Hopefully. When I took it apart I was surprised to see how crappy the system looked but since the previous elbow had lasted about 20 years we just went ahead and replaced with the same thing.

You may be able to clear it by poking, but be aware you might just break that entire section right out (the part which diverts the water), which would probably be bad…

Most likely cause is a failed impellor with a vane obstructing water somewhere. If you've ruled that out....

The link provided upthread shows a pretty basic mixing elbow with a single water passage. Many elbows have an internal "shower head" to diffuse the water and better cool exhaust. Unfortunately, the smaller passages are more likely to clog.

Overheat alarms placed at the exhaust outlet are typically set at 165F (Borel makes an easy to install one that zip ties to the rubber hose). 165F is presumably used as it gives plenty of notice if total failure of collimg system. If OP is seeing 140F, should be good to go for a while.

The elbow needs to be removed and, as a temporary fix, acid washed. Care is needed as acid isn't great on metal. I too would worry about doing this in the field. You will need a new copper crush gasket for reinstall. Chance of separating elbow from flange without a large vice and a pipe wrench with long cheater bar is near zero. Conversely, chance of doing more harm than good is pretty high.

I know it doesnt answer immediate need, but TAD Diesel is a good source for replacement SS elbow. I believe they start at around $700.

https://www.tadiesels.com/exhaust-elbows.html

McMaster Carr carries stainless steel NPT pipe if you want to cobble something together. Would need the manifold mount flange. Still not a field service fix.

Hate to say it but unless you find a decent shop who can manhandled your existing elbow and perhaps Rube Goldberg a fix, you're better off hobbling under current circumstances. Or SeaTow

Peter

[GILow]

Originally Posted by more

140°C or Fahrenheit

Sorry mate, I missed this one.

Happy to say that was Farenheit. 140 Celsius would have been a bit serious.

I'll will do an engine swap soon and in the process the boat will get metric instruments,

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Most likely cause is a failed impellor with a vane obstructing water somewhere. If you've ruled that out....

The link provided upthread shows a pretty basic mixing elbow with a single water passage. Many elbows have an internal "shower head" to diffuse the water and better cool exhaust. Unfortunately, the smaller passages are more likely to clog.

Overheat alarms placed at the exhaust outlet are typically set at 165F (Borel makes an easy to install one that zip ties to the rubber hose). 165F is presumably used as it gives plenty of notice if total failure of collimg system. If OP is seeing 140F, should be good to go for a while.

The elbow needs to be removed and, as a temporary fix, acid washed. Care is needed as acid isn't great on metal. I too would worry about doing this in the field. You will need a new copper crush gasket for reinstall. Chance of separating elbow from flange without a large vice and a pipe wrench with long cheater bar is near zero. Conversely, chance of doing more harm than good is pretty high.

I know it doesnt answer immediate need, but TAD Diesel is a good source for replacement SS elbow. I believe they start at around $700.

https://www.tadiesels.com/exhaust-elbows.html

McMaster Carr carries stainless steel NPT pipe if you want to cobble something together. Would need the manifold mount flange. Still not a field service fix.

Hate to say it but unless you find a decent shop who can manhandled your existing elbow and perhaps Rube Goldberg a fix, you're better off hobbling under current circumstances. Or SeaTow

Peter

I don't know... 15,000 km seems a long way to go to buy some stainless pipe.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by GILow

I don't know... 15,000 km seems a long way to go to buy some stainless pipe.

Yes, it would be. Given the only breadcrumb offered on your location is use of Fahrenheit vs Celcius, I figured US based.

Thanks for the correction. Good luck with your repair.

Peter

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Yes, it would be. Given the only breadcrumb offered on your location is use of Fahrenheit vs Celcius, I figured US based.

Thanks for the correction. Good luck with your repair.

Peter

Mate, there are enough breadcrumbs to make a loaf.

Look at my profile.

It may come as a total shock, but there are countries other than the good old U.S. of A.

[Bill O]

Matt,
That elbow looks like an Osco. They are out of business. Went thru the same issue on our 4.236 recently.

Would look at parts4engines out of the UK or HDI for a cast SS replacement as yours is most likely rusting out from the inside.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by GILow

Mate, there are enough breadcrumbs to make a loaf.

Look at my profile.

It may come as a total shock, but there are countries other than the good old U.S. of A.

Sorry I bothered.

BTW - I wasn't the only person who scratched their head trying to figure out what you meant (Fahrenheit vs Celcius).

Good luck. Sounds like you'll need it.

Peter