Perkins 4108 Engine Sailboat Stuck

[SailnParadise]

Got a new to me sailboat that broke loose during the storm and previous owner gave up on it and just gave me the coordinates. Have ot get it moved somewhere safe. Mainsail is shredded but headsail is usable and so is the mizzen. But I need to get into a harbor somewhere so need my the engine desperately before another storm comes or some strong winds out of the west. PO said it ran for his last trip from Tampa to the Keys. Stated that he kept clogging the filter. I checked the Rancor FG500 and it is full of black growth. There is also a cracked injector flange. I bled the lines to and from the fuel pump and cracked each injector while turning the engine. There is also an onboard fuel transfer pump that I used to assist in bleeding the fuel lines. But I still cannot get it to start. The PO said to use the ether onboard during this process but the Manual says it has glow plugs and the can specifically states NOT to use it if the engine has glow plugs. So I did not follow that direction. The engine looks good, no corrosion. Turns over strong enough. Just cannot get it to start. Any help would be appreciated. For now I have bypassed the fuel tank and am using a 5 gallon can of fresh diesel with the fuel line and return going into it. I have a new set of Rancor FG500 filters arriving in 2 days but need to move before then. Using a generator, 75amp charger with engine start and new battery so batteries arent the issue.

[SV Confianza]

I’ve got some easy ones to check off before you dig too deep.

Is it getting air? Filter clogged?

Does it have an engine stop or fuel shutoff that is stuck off?

[Turtle Blues]

You need to verify the glow plugs get energized and are working.
First check for power when circuit is energized.
If there is voltage: Pull one glow plug, ground base to engine block, energize circuit...it should glow bright red very quickly. If no glow the plug has failed.
If still no start with operational glow plugs repeat bleeding procedure.

[SailnParadise]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

I’ve got some easy ones to check off before you dig too deep.

Is it getting air? Filter clogged?

Does it have an engine stop or fuel shutoff that is stuck off?

New Air Filter and I checked it. Engine stop is all the way in. And fuel shutoff is open. System is getting fuel. I bled it just fine and cleared all bubbles.

[SailnParadise]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

You need to verify the glow plugs get energized and are working.
First check for power when circuit is energized.
If there is voltage: Pull one glow plug, ground base to engine block, energize circuit...it should glow bright red very quickly. If no glow the plug has failed.
If still no start with operational glow plugs repeat bleeding procedure.

Thank you. I didn't realize glow plugs were needed even in warm weather for proper operation. I will check. Do you happen to know their location?

[Fore and Aft]

Sailnparadise did you try some easy start fluid. I have worked on a worn Cat 3208 diesel and Perkins 4108 and every time after a filter change they needed a squirt of easy start to get going. Then it's all good until the next filter change and the engine wants to test my patience again.
Cheers

[Turtle Blues]

This is the late type -screws into cylinder head. Early install in manifold. Only part on each cylinder with a wire going to it.

[Turtle Blues]

Glow plug on engine

[SailnParadise]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Sailnparadise did you try some easy start fluid. I have worked on a worn Cat 3208 diesel and Perkins 4108 and every time after a filter change they needed a squirt of easy start to get going. Then it's all good until the next filter change and the engine wants to test my patience again.
Cheers

Are you refering to ether? Or a lighter starting fluid? Which brand/type do you use?

[Fore and Aft]

SailnParadise ether is what I am talking about, I am not brand loyal and just use what is the cheapest starter fluid on the shelf. Once on that Cat diesel in desperation I used brake cleaner fluid to get the SOB to fire up. We had that motor perfectly primed, but nothing was happening. What's strange is after a warm up period we never had any drama starting until the next filter change.
Cheers

[skipperpete]

Generally, Perkins 4/108’s don’t have glowplugs but very rarely one turns up …..however, nearly all 4-108s have a manifold heater, equally problematic if you decide to use “smelling salts” and if you disconnect that fat cable that terminates at the preheat valve there’s no reason why you can’t give er a sniff…. But only while actually cranking. Did you replace the broken injector clamping bridge?

[Searles]

The 4108 has a heater in the air inlet just under the air cleaner,sounds like the injector pump maybe contaminated or jammed ,try WD 40 or CRC spray directly into the air inlet ,do not use preheat ,have the throttle full open ,crack only one injector ,one turn from closed ,should get a fire ,do not use easy start on these engines as they have indirect injection ,it’s possible to damage the firing chamber ,if no fire ,start checking the whole fuel system , mean while get a tow .⚓️⛵️

[Flying Monkey]

Perkins 4108, and not to leave out the 4236. Love these engines.
Good work so far OP. Stay with her. She will run for you, but you probably need to 'take her out for dinner and buy jer some flowers'.

A little diesel theory refresher to focus on. Air. Fuel. Compression.
This is what the wngine needs ro run. As with an earlier post... most 4108 do not have glow plugs and do not need them. Maybe in super cold weather, which, in the Keys... you do not have. So do not pull your hair out wondering what it could be. Stick with the main 3.
Air:
is the engine able to get air for combustion?

Fuel:
I believe this is the issue. As you described your method for bleeding the air out of the fuel lines... something like 'cracking open the injectors while running the engine'.
This is not the best way.
The 4108 has a mechanical fuel lift pump that feeds the injector pump. To bleed the lines, this mechanical pump needs to be pumped an insane amount of times. If you have not manually pumped this fuel pump until you thought, 'I can't do it anymore', then it is not enough
Cranking the engine will not do it. Not even close.
There is most likely still air in the lines which means the engine is starved for fuel.
Try this method. If you can get a helper for an hour, it will really make it easier.
Find the mechanical fuel lift pump. I cannot remember on this engine, if it is on the engine right and rear or where. Before you start pumping, make sure all the fuel line connections are snug.
Pump that mechanical pump by hand 100 times.
Follw the fuel line out of the mechanical lift pump up to the injector pump where you will see 2 fuel connections. Start with the connection on the line from the lift pump to the injector pump. **** you will probably need a wrench made for this nut. This nut is critical and tight as hell, unless you have already opened it up. My point is, use the proper tool and do not bugger up this nut.
While your helper continues to pump the mechanical fuel lift pump like mad, open the nut at the injector pump side of the fuel line. Open it a bit more than 'cracked', so that air can escape. Air should come out.
Keep pumping the mechanical fuel lift pump until diesel fuel bubbles out of this 'cracked open' line.
Then pump some more until fuel comes out without bubbles.
It takes a "sh*t ton" of pumps. You and your helper will get worn out.
When just fuel comes out, then tighten this nut.
**** before you get started, make sure you have some diesel absorbant material to avoid fouling your bilge with a bunch of diesel.****
Yay... that one line is now bled. Relax. Have some coffee, not a beer, because you have more bleeding to do.
Repeat this process, following the remaining connections. Start at the first injector. Pump like mad. Crack it open. Be sure to use the correct flare nut wrench.

If it were me, then I would get the line bled up to and including that first injector and then try and start her up.
If it starts, yay. Time for a beer,
If no, then keep bleeding.
It is a boat, she only wants all your time, effort, and money.

My bet is that on e you get this done, she will run.

If she does not, then she is getting air and fuel. That points to a conpression problem. There is not enough compression to detonate the air-fuel mixture in the cylinder. You can get a conpression tester to be 100% sure, but you can bet on poor conpression.
The engine needs a valve job. You can do that on-board, yourself.
If it were me, then I would use a little start 'helper' like another person wrote. Spray some WD-40 in to the air intake while you are cranking, or other diesel engine start assist.
I would not use ether unless it was my only choice.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Kettlewell]

Have you cracked the two bleed bolts on the injector pump and made sure you are getting bubble free fuel from each bolt? There needs to be no air bubbles up to those two bleed bolts. Only then can you crank over the engine. Here is my procedure on a Perkins 4.236 that works every time:

1. Loosen nut on top of fuel filter housing on engine
2. Pump until fuel comes out with no bubbles
3. Loosen two small bleed screws (8mm) on side of injector pump
4. Pump until fuel comes out without bubbles. Top bleeder will clear first. Tighten. Proceed until bottom bleeder clears. Tighten.
5. Loosen nuts on two middle injector lines on top of engine (16mm).
6. Crank over engine at full throttle until it starts, then quickly tighten each injector nut. 7. Engine rpms will increase rapidly, so reduce from full throttle after tightening each nut.
7. Check for leaks

[marcjsmith]

TAD has a pretty good bleed procedure for the 4108. I have used more than once. I have also, while using a remote starter button. turned the engine over while blocking the intake. no air going in beans no air to compress which means the engine spins faster.

when you remove the intake blockage with the engine spinning faster it compresses the newly added air a bit better.

Also make sure that shutoff t handles is in the run position. make sure you are giving it enough throttle as well.

the manual fuel pump on my 4108 is near the engine mounted fuel filter on the right ride of the engine just fwd of the bell housing...

need to make sure that every single banjo fitting and fuel line connection is tight. no air.

clean out the racor. and change the filter. since you are using a spare tank fuels is not the issue you've probably got an air leak somewhere


my perking was on the hard for 8 years and had (we think) some ring corrosion with had it slightly locked up. once we got it freed up, it started. granted I had to rebuild the FI pump as well and a new starter.

if the engine turns over. its gonna run as long as it getting fuel and compression. the 4108 is a tough little engine...

take heed on only using the starter the short bursts with time to rest....

https://www.tadiesels.com/assets/doc...20Changing.pdf

the guy the owns TAD is an old brit, they are located in Virginia.... he is a wealth of knowledge and will talk to you on the phone...
the service manual is available on line for free

https://www.endeavourowners.com/dscs...p%20Manual.pdf