Perkins 4108/Jabsco Raw water pump 3273

[KDH]

Prior to setting out for our long term cruise I had the water pump">raw water pump replaced because it was gushing, not dribbling, water out the weep hole. Now here it is a year later, almost to the day, and the raw water pump has developed a drip from the weep hole. It was frequent enough to get about a quart of water in the bilge after about 8 hours running. I have removed and replaced both the cam and the wear plate. When I wiped the outside of the pump body dry there was also a bit of oil with the water coming out of the weep hole. The pump dripped once more then stopped dripping water but there is a small residue of oil when I wipe my finger over the weephole. This seems ominous. I have ordered a new water pump which should be here soon so we can get back on our way. My question is, what does the oil indicate? A bad bearing? Seal? Sympathy with my oil weeping Perkins? We have to run the engine twice a day for the refrigerator:...should I stop until the pump is replaced? I've only been working on engines about 3 years so I would love to hear from someone with more experience. Thanks!

[marc2012]

If it is like the one I had splines into the drive train.Leaking seals will get water in the oil.marc Ps mine had a sherwood pump on it.

[KDH]

The engine is a "new" Perkins 4-108 with a heat exchanger. Our previous engine was a Yanmar from 1981. I have changed out multiple parts on both engines, a cooling elbow on the Yanmar, a fuel pump on the Perkins, some gaskets etc. but I have never rebuilt a pump. In the workshop manual it says "to coat the entire top surface, rear face and securing setscrew holes with a suitable jointing compound". Does that mean liquid teflon? When I removed the cam and the wear plate there was a discoloration to the metal but no compound of any kind and little room to apply any. Also, the blow out diagram shows an o ring behind the wear plate (there is a small circular gap between the wear plate and the seal that looks like it should have a o ring) but there was no o ring. Other than that the pump looks identical to the one in the Perkins manual.

[DeepFrz]

Something like this?
Hylomar Universal Blue gasket and jointing compound, non-setting sealant, Hylomar gasket jointing compounds , PL32/H ( heavy) , PL/HC (heavy), PL32/M (medium) hylomar universal blue

[brankin]

No need to replace the pump. It has two seals on the shaft (one for the water side and one for the engine side which is where the oil is coming from)and has got some corrosion pitting in the shaft. Go to Miller Bearing or another bearing supplier and they have a product that will go over the top of the shaft and make a new surface where the seal seats. I think it is called seal saver. Total cost to repair should be about...$28 for each sleeve and about $5 each for the seals. I did my main raw water and also the reserve with this system and it worked perfectly for the last year...I hope you didn't throw away the old pump because it is repairable.

[KDH]

Thanks everyone for the additional info. Will take the pump apart and reseat the cam and wear plate while I try to source the seals/savers once we get to Morocco. Morocco is a short run from here and to minimize running the engine we are sailing straight to Rabat from Portimao.

[KDH]

Finally got the pump partially rebuilt. Turns out I had the seals already on the boat but the rebuild kit that came from Perkins didn't have a new shaft. So, I've changed out both seals and the cam and wear plate and rebedded them. Reinstalled the pump and running fine so far no leaks. I've ordered a new pump to be sent over (why are my presents for Christmas always boat parts...). Will pick up the parts to rebuild the old pump in England next Spring and if I have to before then we'll change to the new pump. Thanks guys for the pointers!

[Allan S]

KDH, I am in the process of rebuilding the same pump! I have documnted it with photos on my blog, (The 'sheppard' one listed below). I have damaged the seat for the seals but will repair and blog it this week. Good to know that a shaft is not included in the rebuild kit. My pump shaft is showing wear. I am having a dickens of a time getting parts suppliers to even acknowledge my existense though.

[Allan S]

KDH, thanks for the response and link in my post which is similar to your original post here. I can find Perkin suppliers here in Canada, they just don't friggin' respond......maybe they are on Xmas break or something

[Acushla]

KD the shaft seals are standard seals and can be purchased from any half decent seal supplier, you don't need to go back to the OEM but you do need the shaft size, OD and depth or a sample. It is also sailing practice to remove the metal springs from the seals and replace them with O rings before fitting.
The rubber O rings work better with water than the ss springs do. It doesn't matter on the oil side as the ss spring is OK in oil but for the sake of interchangeability I change all of them.

[KDH]

Originally Posted by Acushla

KD the shaft seals are standard seals and can be purchased from any half decent seal supplier, you don't need to go back to the OEM but you do need the shaft size, OD and depth or a sample. It is also sailing practice to remove the metal springs from the seals and replace them with O rings before fitting.
The rubber O rings work better with water than the ss springs do. It doesn't matter on the oil side as the ss spring is OK in oil but for the sake of interchangeability I change all of them.

Thanks for the tip! I had O-rings but I wasn't sure that would work. Will give it a shot next time.

[forsailbyowner]

Geez at $400 a whack get familiar with the pump and carry spares and tools to rebuild. I have a hand impact driver, and a gear/bearing puller for just this reason. A year old shaft should be fine.I keep one good pump in reserve and an assortment of spare parts. I will go through 2 or 3 seals to 1 impellor. If the leak is fixed promptly I sometimed get away with reusing the bearings.

[KDH]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

Geez at $400 a whack get familiar with the pump and carry spares and tools to rebuild. I have a hand impact driver, and a gear/bearing puller for just this reason. A year old shaft should be fine.I keep one good pump in reserve and an assortment of spare parts. I will go through 2 or 3 seals to 1 impellor. If the leak is fixed promptly I sometimed get away with reusing the bearings.

I am now familiar with the pump and I agree that it was easy enough to change the seals. I did reuse the bearings although I would have preferred to change them and the year old shaft was grooved already. However, it took 5 hours or so to do this, mostly because of access issues, and quite frankly I only enjoy working on the engine if I can do it all myself with no help from the hubbie. Rebuilding the pump was an exercise in frustration because I just didn't have enough strength in my hands to pull/push the seals out of the pump easily. I did get one out on my own eventually (they were fused to the pump) but had to have help with the other. In deciding to order a new pump I took the following into account- my time to source parts @ 10.00 an hour, the loss of time to do other things in exotic foreign parts, the fact that the nearest dealer for Jabsco and Perkins were in another port 3 hours up the coast and the fact that we have an engine driven refrigerator that we can't run if we can't run the engine twice a day, price of replacement parts as listed online at 3 different sources (which by the way added up to almost as much as the 311$ I spent on the pump). Could I have found more spare parts somewhere here in Morocco, maybe but I don't speak the local dialect and my French is laughable. So like you said above "I keep one good pump in reserve" and now I'll have one (we can't find the old one from before, I think the mechanic must have kept it). Had to argue with the husband for weeks about the need to rebuild the pump and the first thing he said to me when I finally insisted it had to be now not later was...."but I just got the beer cold!"