Perkins 4108 will not start

[kinggeordie]

Hello

i have a rebuilt perkins 4108 and cannot get it started, when cranking the engine there is white smoke, i have had a compression test done this is fine, i have tried to retard and advance the pump, this makes no difference.

the injectors are good

the pump is aligned at the timing marks, the engine has been bled, there is plenty of pressure at the fuel filter and at the pump, the pump was fitted at TDC

timing gears are correct

the pump is the original pump that came off the engine and was working before hand.

does anyone have any ideas thanks

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Geordie.

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Geordie.

Thank you great site loads of great advice

[roberttigar]

But is the pump set the way it was before you disassembled the engine. My 4108 pump mark is set high of the block mark. Each engine is a little different Bob

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by roberttigar

But is the pump set the way it was before you disassembled the engine. My 4108 pump mark is set high of the block mark. Each engine is a little different Bob

Hi yes there are two scribe marks on the pump, one is faint and one is very prominent, the prominent one was in perfect line with the line on the block. Do I take the inspection cover off the pump to see if the pump is in the correct position and does piston 1 need to be tdc when the pump is fitted thanks

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by kinggeordie

Hi yes there are two scribe marks on the pump, one is faint and one is very prominent, the prominent one was in perfect line with the line on the block. Do I take the inspection cover off the pump to see if the pump is in the correct position and does piston 1 need to be tdc when the pump is fitted thanks

I was also told by a diesel mechanic that a set of jump leads would need to be connected to the batteries and a car running at 2000 revs to get 14 v supplied to the starter after a engine rebuild for first run I don’t know if this is true as others reckon they have never done this

[roberttigar]

When I reinstalled my pump, I had a professional time it properly. He loosened the bolts enough to turn the pump qwhile I started the engine. Then when it was running best, he locked it down.
Are you sure you have bled the system properly. They are a bitch to do.

[a64pilot]

Stupid question, is it possible to time a Perkins 180 out?
I’ve seen that mistake on a John Deere, and it did as you say.
Plus if your engine isn’t turning fast enough due to being tight, low batteries etc, that will also keep it from running

[roberttigar]

Several years ago, I had my 4-108 retimed. The mechanic removed the front pulley and timing gear cover and reset the gears to thir proper position. He was a pro and made it look pretty simple. Bob

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by roberttigar

Several years ago, I had my 4-108 retimed. The mechanic removed the front pulley and timing gear cover and reset the gears to thir proper position. He was a pro and made it look pretty simple. Bob

Thanks Bob I’m going to call someone in to have a look

[jimbunyard]

Has it ever started since the rebuild? If the engine is cranking up to speed (good battery, good cables, secure connections) and there is heavy white smoke, try cranking repeatedly with the throttle in 'no fuel' and/or with the fuel supply turned off. Don't overheat the starter. When/if the white smoke clears up, squirt a tiny puff of starting fluid into the intake and see if she fires. Close the water intake if the engine is in the boat.

Could be just tight or the injection pump could be mistimed or the timing gears could be off...

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Has it ever started since the rebuild? If the engine is cranking up to speed (good battery, good cables, secure connections) and there is heavy white smoke, try cranking repeatedly with the throttle in 'no fuel' and/or with the fuel supply turned off. Don't overheat the starter. When/if the white smoke clears up, squirt a tiny puff of starting fluid into the intake and see if she fires. Close the water intake if the engine is in the boat.

Could be just tight or the injection pump could be mistimed or the timing gears could be off...

Thanks battery’s are good I have two banks of heavy duty starters I’ll try the cold start see if she fires

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Has it ever started since the rebuild? If the engine is cranking up to speed (good battery, good cables, secure connections) and there is heavy white smoke, try cranking repeatedly with the throttle in 'no fuel' and/or with the fuel supply turned off. Don't overheat the starter. When/if the white smoke clears up, squirt a tiny puff of starting fluid into the intake and see if she fires. Close the water intake if the engine is in the boat.

Could be just tight or the injection pump could be mistimed or the timing gears could be off...

dont run the starter for more than 20 seconds, and give a decent 40 second cool down interval

if you have a preheater in the intake keep the button down on it for the first 8 secs or so of starter motor periods

keep the raw water closed until the engine runs or you can destroy the exhaust

white smoke makes me think like it really does sound like the timing is out

have you got a manual for your engine?

[ColinIOM]

What you seemed to have already done sounds good. However, you are obviously not a “Professional” or you would not be asking for help.
Firstly, why was the engine overhauled? Is there still an issue from before? Does the fuel pump need overhauling?
If everything is good, (compression, timing, injectors, batteries) then it should start, the fact that its not tells you something is not quite correct. White smoke is likely to be unburnt fuel.
If you are convinced you have bled it properly, remove one of the injectors, reconnect its fuel pipe and crank it over to see if its atomising fuel properly, IE if its not bled properly, it will not get through the injector very well.
I would absolutely not use any type of easy start spray, the engine will fire, but burns so hot, it burns the oil (and fuel) of the cylinder walls, not good, so please don't be tempted.

Setting up injection timing is not always straightforward, you say there are two marks, an old “faint” line and a new one? Try the faint mark! Or, Get timed correctly from scratch (lining up on old marks is not timing it! Its just reusing old marks that someone else made! They could be wrong.
If you are as happy as you can be, then I would recheck everything, ensure the batteries are up to the job, put it on FULL throttle and crank it for at least 15 - 20 seconds. (Make sure its getting plenty air and there is not a rag still in the inlet manifold (its been done, trust me) If that fails, call in a professional.
Good luck
Colin

[kinggeordie]

Originally Posted by ColinIOM

What you seemed to have already done sounds good. However, you are obviously not a “Professional” or you would not be asking for help.
Firstly, why was the engine overhauled? Is there still an issue from before? Does the fuel pump need overhauling?
If everything is good, (compression, timing, injectors, batteries) then it should start, the fact that its not tells you something is not quite correct. White smoke is likely to be unburnt fuel.
If you are convinced you have bled it properly, remove one of the injectors, reconnect its fuel pipe and crank it over to see if its atomising fuel properly, IE if its not bled properly, it will not get through the injector very well.
I would absolutely not use any type of easy start spray, the engine will fire, but burns so hot, it burns the oil (and fuel) of the cylinder walls, not good, so please don't be tempted.

Setting up injection timing is not always straightforward, you say there are two marks, an old “faint” line and a new one? Try the faint mark! Or, Get timed correctly from scratch (lining up on old marks is not timing it! Its just reusing old marks that someone else made! They could be wrong.
If you are as happy as you can be, then I would recheck everything, ensure the batteries are up to the job, put it on FULL throttle and crank it for at least 15 - 20 seconds. (Make sure its getting plenty air and there is not a rag still in the inlet manifold (its been done, trust me) If that fails, call in a professional.
Good luck
Colin

Thanks Colin the engine was rebuilt as the previous owner had over heating issues and run the cooling on raw water for a long time, the issues I found was the different size cooling pipes fro 1/4 up to 3/4 I have changed these to the correct sizes as per the manual. I have 2 banks of 2 starter/ leisure battery’s brand new and fully charged. I bled to the injectors no air or bubbles from the pump and a steady flow to the injectors but I wouldn’t say at this point the flow was high pressure, is the pressure built up in the injectors?