Rational for a Hybrid?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by billknny

Is there any rational reason that a diesel/electric hybrid system makes sense for a long-range cruising boat? I see people buying them, but to my engineer self it does not compute.

An automobile has a fundamentally different power use cycle than a boat. They use full engine power only when accelerating or hill climbing. When traveling at highway speeds, the engine is just ticking over. A perfect application for a hybrid because you can install a tiny little engine to keep the car moving at 60MPH, and the electric system handles the short term heavy lifting.

A boat is completely the reverse. The engine is fully loaded only when running at cruising speed--which happens for long periods of time, not brief intervals. Batteries can't keep you going for hours at a time, and you still need to install a diesel engine of the same power output and carry just as much diesel fuel... PLUS the batteries...

What's the appeal--other than being the cool kid on the block with more money than sense?

Well put.

[raphaella]

Good morning all. Just saddened to see all the back and fourth bitching about fuel, electric, hybrid and what not. One says this, and another says that! Anyhow, we have a Lagoon 410 2002 with 2x 3jh3e's on her, one with 100amp alternator for house and the other has a both a 70 amp alternator and a magnetic clutch refrigeration system. Are planning to remove the motor which has the compressor and 70 amp alternator, as it has the most hrs on it and fitting a 10 kw electric motor, with at least 600amp/hr bank. Changing the alternator on the remaining engine's alternator to a 100 amp 56v to recharge the 600 amp back. House has a 1kw solar and adding a 800 solar for the 48 v configuration. We never run only one engine as it takes more fuel to run one at 2200 than 2 at 1800 rpm, therefore always use two engines, when motoring. HYBRID = 2 sources of energy therefore we are becoming hybrid. No matter what was, is or is going to be said we are in the process and will keep you posted on our conclusions. Just to mention that we are lucky enough to have an electrical engineer that works for Air Canada airlines that is actually helping us figure out all the installation details. My idea running the electric motor at about 55 to 75 amps draw and the diesel engine with the alternator generating the same amount we will double our distance with the same fuel used. Oh and just to pick your curiosity we also use HYDRGEN generator for the engine, but that is another discussion completely different.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by raphaella

My idea running the electric motor at about 55 to 75 amps draw and the diesel engine with the alternator generating the same amount we will double our distance with the same fuel used.

ROTFLMAO

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by StuM

ROTFLMAO

I’m actually laughing even harder!!

[SV THIRD DAY]

How many of these electrical hybrid boats do you see out cruising vs being planned and talked about on the chat forums....Boom...there is your answer. If you want an engineering project...great.
If you want a Cruising Boat...forget about it.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by raphaella

Good morning all. Just saddened to see all the back and fourth bitching about fuel, electric, hybrid and what not. One says this, and another says that!

Don't be sad about that!

We all start out with different levels (lacks) of knowledge and (mis) information, and it is in the crucible of disagreement that we become more wise.

Some of your post is laughably wrong, and if you you don't want to listen to correction you will just continue to be ignorant on that issue.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Don't be sad about that!

We all start out with different levels (lacks) of knowledge and (mis) information, and it is in the crucible of disagreement that we become more wise.

Some of your post is laughably wrong, and if you you don't want to listen to correction you will just continue to be ignorant on that issue.

A little harsh but true with the ignorance. The next step is perpetual motion. He is not even speaking hybrid he is speaking close to diesel electric.

[donradcliffe]

I saw an ad for a new controllable pitch propellor the other day, but can't find it again. It would change the rationale for a hybrid sailboat, because it would allow you to do some significant battery charging while sailing in stronger breezes. The only drawback is that it adds complexity and maintenance, and is probably sinfully expensive.

[CarlF]

Here’s a better idea. Focus on making the boat sail better and use water power. Eye popping 60kW regeneration from props under sail.

Storage is still the problem. These guys have 1.5 tons in lithium batteries AND generate hydrogen as a fuel. Bet that’s expensive

Daedalus D80 is a smart ocean supercat capable of low-emission long-distance luxury cruising - Yachting World

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Cadence

He is not even speaking hybrid he is speaking close to diesel electric.

Not that it's relevant but Raphaella is likely a woman.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Not that it's relevant but Raphaella is likely a woman.

I guess I'm a sexist pig. I didn't even pick up on that. It is still a crazy ideal.

[Wayfarer1008]

Cadence I agree with you whole heartedly over the hybrid issue and I think Raphaella is caught up in techno-one-upmanship that plagues sailboat racers trying to get that extra jump on their competition. For most of us the idea of going through expensive motor swap is seen as a big hit in our green luggage "Cash" that can be better spent on actual cruising. Through the years I have had a chance to run around on boats that have been powered by every conceivable power source imaginable from a 1900's Navy wood fired steam tug called the Oregon to hydrogen fuel cell powered party boats built by Duffy and the rule of thumb as always is to keep it simple and stupid!!!.
Making it overly complicated is completely un-necessary and a safety issue in that you need items like your power train to be as primitive as possible, easy to maintain and run on the most available fuel source possible.
I hate to admit it my favorite power source was the steam tug in that as we cruised up and down the Columbia river any bit of derelict wood was fuel for the fire. There was something satisfying in getting something for free to make your boat move.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by raphaella

.........fitting a 10 kw electric motor, with at least 600amp/hr bank. Changing the alternator on the remaining engine's alternator to a 100 amp 56v to recharge the 600 amp back.

600AH @ 48 volts means a lot of batteries. About 1600 lbs if using flooded GC batteries. Heavier than both of your diesels. Actually as heavy as 4 Yanmar 3jh3e engines.

[Wayfarer1008]

1,600 lbs. is about the same weight as 228 gallons of diesel which is about the average fuel capacity of a standard sport fisher. going to lithium batteries can reduce weight but if you have ever seen a Lithium battery com in contact with sea water watch out they explode.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer1008

1,600 lbs. is about the same weight as 228 gallons of diesel which is about the average fuel capacity of a standard sport fisher. going to lithium batteries can reduce weight but if you have ever seen a Lithium battery com in contact with sea water watch out they explode.

A Lagoon 410 is not a sport fisher. It is a weight sensitive catamaran.