Rebuild or Replacement of Old Engine?

[Abo]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Where I get parts (www.parts4engines.com) for Perkins, a rebuild kit for the 4.154 is about $500 including all necessary internal parts and gaskets and seals. My experience with Perkins is if the oil was changed normally, the crank is still standard. You could mic it or use plastic gauge. The block doesn't need to leave the boat to rebuild, depends on space to work. The head can go to any decent rebuilder. Unless the injectors are new I usually get them rebuilt when I do the engine. If you can do the work, it should be less than $1500. You can find a workshop manual for about $30 on ebay.

The engine was used in tractors, skid steer loaders and other farm equipment. Doing a search might reveal other options at less money.

www.foleyengines.com sometimes has rebuilt blocks for exchange. They are the most expensive Perkins dealer I have ever dealt with. Everything they sell is available somewhere else for less money. I found it cheaper to ship from the UK than deal with Foley and I'm on the West Coast. Customer service is non-existent.

Hi Lepke,

Thank you so much for this information, it is really helpful to know from your personal experience places to avoid and the prices and what you have done and would do in different situations. I will look for the manual on ebay also and see if I can locate one. I am a big believer in manuals, we had the best I have seen when I was working on aircraft instruments, they were invaluable. Thanks again to all for the information put forward and for your time in doing this, it is very much appreciated, and what I was hoping to learn.
Regards,
Abo

[Mickeyrouse]

I think shop manuals for the Perkins engines as marinized and marketed by Westerbeke are available for download on the Westerbeke website, some of them free. There should be no diference as to tolerances, clearances, etc. etc for anything on the block and fuel injection system. I think the fuel injection is Lucas.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Abo

OK, sounds really good, I was under the impression that it had totally destroyed the engine, but that probably comes from non-mechanical people, they weren't on this forum, lol. I would much prefer to rebuild it myself, that way I will learn what makes it tick and how to repair other problems. Might also save myself a lot of money, and the reviews I have read are not very favorable to the newer engines available in my quick search.


Abo

My experience on my previous boat, where I wanted a more powerful engine, was that I was so disappointed with the new engines on offer that I bought an industrial engine and marinized it myself.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Good morning, Abo.

Do consider either a rebuild or an exact replacement. The designer didn't leave space for other engines, and all the connections - water, fuel, controls, electrics - will be in the wrong places. So will the engine mounts and the distance to the shaft.

If it’s an OI-41 there is plenty of room for a different engine. They have a real engine room, crouching height.

If it’s a regular M-41 then there may be a few options for replacement but we’d need to know what’s in there originally.

[Abo]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

I think shop manuals for the Perkins engines as marinized and marketed by Westerbeke are available for download on the Westerbeke website, some of them free. There should be no diference as to tolerances, clearances, etc. etc for anything on the block and fuel injection system. I think the fuel injection is Lucas.

Hi Mickeyrouse,
Thank you for this information, it will save me a lot of searching. It will be interesting to see what I can find. I will try to post links when I get through this.


Regards,


Abo

[Abo]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If it’s an OI-41 there is plenty of room for a different engine. They have a real engine room, crouching height.

If it’s a regular M-41 then there may be a few options for replacement but we’d need to know what’s in there originally.

Hi Adelie,


Thank you for letting me know this, I will check it and see how much room it has and let you know. I am not there at the moment so it will be a few weeks.


Regards,


Abo

[Abo]

[QUOTE=Lepke;3760831]Where I get parts (www.parts4engines.com) for Perkins, a rebuild kit for the 4.154 is about $500 including all necessary internal parts and gaskets and seals. My experience with Perkins is if the oil was changed normally, the crank is still standard. You could mic it or use plastic gauge. The block doesn't need to leave the boat to rebuild, depends on space to work. The head can go to any decent rebuilder. Unless the injectors are new I usually get them rebuilt when I do the engine. If you can do the work, it should be less than $1500. You can find a workshop manual for about $30 on ebay.

The engine was used in tractors, skid steer loaders and other farm equipment. Doing a search might reveal other options at less money........



Hi Lepke,

Sorry, I thought I had replied to your post. I am going to try to do the work myself, I really want to get my fingers in this pie. Can't find a manual for that price, hunting for a digital copy if I can get one. There are a couple on eBay but they are really expensive - classified as 'Collector's Items' by the sellers. Going to do a search on all the libraries as well, emailed Perkins already but no response yet. I will messaging your other recommendations also or phone them if possible, I think the phone call is the most preferable option.


Abo

[mcon12000]

I just replaced a Perkins 4108 with a Beta 38.

While trying to keep the Perkins Parts for Engines and Transatlantic diesel are fantastic resources.

Real world cost for a swap will be multiples of times more expensive than a rebuild but parts are becoming difficult to source on the Perkins. For example the rebuilt injection pump alone will cost $900-$1500 I put one on six moths before I decided it was time to replace the Perkins.

Here’s the basic cost on my swap so you’re not mislead.

New Beta 38 with two control panels(one basic is include), Standard beta mounts with the wider spacing required for a Perkins bed, seatalk interface and a few other nickel and dime items like water heater take offs with valves.

$17k

Removal of the old engine and dropping in the new one. I did all the work leaving the yard with nothing but the job of lifting .So I spent a few weeks (not everyday) rebuilding the engine beds to work with the new motor.

$1800 for the yard
$200 in epoxy and glass

Shaft need to be shortened so at this point it either goes to a machine shop to be re keyed OR you do what I didn’t and install a Sigma Drive.

$850

The exhaust needs a lot of attention and gets expensive really quick. The requirements of the Beta did not align with the Perkins requiring a new Vetus water muffler and ten feet of new flexible hose. It will be highly unlikely you can reuse the existing exhaust without modification.

$585

The engine cover no longer fits and it’s the base for my inside helm chair. It’s still being sorted but I expect the materials to cost.

$600

Control cables are a crap shoot. Mine are working perfectly but did require a bracket swap on the transmission as mine push/pull from behind not above.

$65

A pile of little items that eat away at the wallet like bilge paint, hoses and clamps.

$1000

Of course this is me doing all the work but the very professional guys and gals at my Yanmar affiliated marina would charge approximately $5k in labor to do all of the above with the possible exception of the glass work and the engine cover.

So $22,010 without outside labor but double check my math and I’m sure I’ve forgotten something substantial.

[mcon12000]

Oh and forgot the prop as I’m still deciding what folding model I’m going with …

$3k

So having done all this I can say with confidence that any estimate a person receives in the $25-$30k range for a re power of a Perkins equipped vessel is likely very fair especially if you value your time.

If you’re not planning on cruising to remote locations rebuild the Perkins. However mine left me bobbing in the Atlantic with a failed injection pump and at forty years old it’s not the block it’s all the old parts bolted to it that fail and can’t be sourced. Oh and the oil in the bilge drove me nuts..

[cottonsail]

The issue with rebuilds as I see it is you are dealing with '50's technology. All the Westerbeke's and Perkin's engines mentioned here us a rear crankshaft packing, not a seal. Hence leakage. The front of the crankshaft on most of these engines do not have a seal but an oil slinger. " My Perkin's does not leak oil. Have you checked the oil level recently?" I went from a W40 Westerbeke to a new D2-50 Volvo Penta. Boat speed went from 6.2 to 6.9 KTS at the same 1 GPH. When you replace an old engine with a current technology engine you gain in so many other ways.

[David Hibbard]

- Before you purchase a replacement engine, get some advice on work required to build the beds. We changed out a Perkins for a Yanmar. The beds had to be completely rebuilt which added considerable to the whole project. The beds, new exhaust system and labour cost $12k US in 2015, which was what we paid for a new 4JH5E Yanmar 54hsp.

[Morris Wilson]

Check out "Parts 4 Engines" They are located in England and ship very quickly by Fedex. The rebuild kit for a 4-107 is only about $800 Canadian. A 4-154 will be a little more. The kit was genuine Perkins You could take that kit to any diesel shop with your engine. I do my own diesel work. rebuild parts for the perkins injector pump are usually no problem since perkins is a common farm tractor engine. The rear crank seal may be fabric and needs to be carefully installed. Simple straight forward engine to work on.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Abo

Hi, can anyone recommend a good 40 to 50 hp Diesel and gearbox for a Morgan 41. Both new and a rebuild.

Would it be better to get the old engine rebuilt? And if so how much would that cost approximately? The old one got sea water in it.

Thank you for reading, and for your recommendations.

If you have the knowledge, tools, and the time it is obviously cheaper to do it yourself.

However, a rebuild is only as good as the mechanic doing the job. Also, there are different levels of rebuild. Make sure you thoroughly understand exactly what you are signing up for because once the mechanic gets into the job you may get suggestions of doing additional things because he already has it torn down and noticed something else which will add to the cost. Understand what the job warrantee covers.

After it is done you will still have the old model engine, albeit rebuilt. I don't trust boat ads that quote unreasonably low engine hours because it was rebuilt but no further info on who, what, or when it was done.

The rebuilding of an engine is maintenance. An new engine replacement can be an investment paying dividends when eventually selling the boat...my last two boats came with new or nearly-new engines.

[Morris Wilson]

Sorry, I may be a little biased toward Perkins. I have worked with them on the farm all my life and have a 4-107 in my boat which I really like and several 6 cylinder Perkins in combines and tractors and two 8 cylinder engines in tractors. The 8 cylinder perkins are just awesome engines. I have rebuilt several with no problems. No metric tools needed (although there is a newer Chinese knock off).

[BBill]

Originally Posted by Morris Wilson

Sorry, I may be a little biased toward Perkins. I have worked with them on the farm all my life and have a 4-107 in my boat which I really like and several 6 cylinder Perkins in combines and tractors and two 8 cylinder engines in tractors. The 8 cylinder perkins are just awesome engines. I have rebuilt several with no problems. No metric tools needed (although there is a newer Chinese knock off).

Hey Morris, I read somewhere a while back there's an aftermarket rear seal that takes care of the 4-107 & 8 leaks. Do you know anything about that?

Bill