Rebuild or Repower?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Kevin84

If I decide on a rebuild, it will be primarily short term, just to keep the boat running and usable till I can repower.

Really? You'd do it TWICE?

Not sure i understand that "logic" at all.

The suggestions given are very astute: find out what's wrong with the engine, if anything, and the prop first before you decide to do anything.

I've had friends, with the same boat, and one rebuilt, one repowered.

Your boat, your choice.

Good luck, especially on the first step. Nice boat, congratulations.

[a64pilot]

Oh, and you can overhaul engine almost forever, if properly done. even more so if the sleeves are replaceable. Either way I bet yours is on it's first overhaul.
And I'd tell you properly done an overhaul is better than a new engine, assuming of course your tolerances you use are tighter. Probably not much point in blue printing and balancing a boat Diesel, but it would make slightly more power, run smoother and last longer than a new motor.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

BINGO!
Before you even consider an overhaul, be real sure it's needed. I'd hate to have bought an overhaul when all that was wrong was a partially collapsed fuel line, clogged filter, obstructed exhaust, or it's propped wrong.
Is it hard to start, but the starter spins it really fast, still have lots of blue smoke even after it's warmed up? Have to add oil every time it's run for an hour or more? If not, maybe it doesn't need an overhaul.

Yeah, I'm planning on having a mechanic check it out before I rebuild it. I'm just budgeting for the rebuild, just in case.

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[a64pilot]

If your the type that likes doing mechanical things and have the time I'd recommend a DIY. It can be very rewarding an you would gain an in depth understanding of the engine.
Many, Many years ago we had a 71VW SuperBug, we were relatively poor and I enjoy DIY, bought this book http://www.amazon.com/How-Keep-Your-.../dp/1562614800
enjoyed fixing the Bug myself so much, bought a 71Westfalia Camper, later on became an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic, and even later a test pilot.
John Muir was an interesting person,

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If your the type that likes doing mechanical things and have the time I'd recommend a DIY. It can be very rewarding an you would gain an in depth understanding of the engine.
Many, Many years ago we had a 71VW SuperBug, we were relatively poor and I enjoy DIY, bought this book http://www.amazon.com/How-Keep-Your-.../dp/1562614800
enjoyed fixing the Bug myself so much, bought a 71Westfalia Camper, later on became an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic, and even later a test pilot.
John Muir was an interesting person,

Thinking about it. I'd be better off learning how to fix my own engine now at the dock. Especially since I'm planning on long term, long distance cruising.

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[a64pilot]

Buy a book or two, especially one on theory of operation, take your time. Expect to make mistakes. Get some good hand cleaner, Rudolph's engines are dirty

[Kevin84]

Oh, I know they are. I drive one for a living. Does Yanmar have a repair manual for their engines? That might be required reading.

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[twistedtree]

I agree you should check out the engine more closely before concluding it needs a rebuild. How many hours are on it since the 2000 rebuild? The seems much more likely that the problem lies elsewhere, like the wrong propping, or other issues, all of which are much easier to fix. Unless the engine has lost compression, the innards are probably just fine.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

I agree you should check out the engine more closely before concluding it needs a rebuild. How many hours are on it since the 2000 rebuild? The seems much more likely that the problem lies elsewhere, like the wrong propping, or other issues, all of which are much easier to fix. Unless the engine has lost compression, the innards are probably just fine.

That's actually what I'm hoping for. But for budget and negotiating reasons, I'm planning on a rebuild. This way if the owner doesn't want to fire the engine, I can knock the price down by telling him I have to assume the engine is shot.

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[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by Kevin84

That's actually what I'm hoping for. But for budget and negotiating reasons, I'm planning on a rebuild. This way if the owner doesn't want to fire the engine, I can knock the price down by telling him I have to assume the engine is shot.

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Got it, that's a smart approach.

[CarinaPDX]

You've got some good advice. Negotiating aside, if you do end up owning the boat then you likely can get the current engine running well for a few thousand.

In an ideal world you would like to have 38-50hp in this boat, given the current views towards auxiliary power, but 30hp is plenty for most situations. For the entire time I was out cruising I had an 18hp engine in my boat, which tipped the scales at 23.5k lbs. For the traditional use of an auxiliary - getting in/out of harbor and when there is no wind - the engine served well. The current thinking is to be more of a motorsailor and be capable of powering into wind and sea, which was very marginal for my smaller engine. The 30hp would obviously do a lot better in your intended boat. But changing it out to gain an extra 8-10hp? That is extravagant. The performance gains would be modest but the costs high. And going for say 50hp would leave you overpowered most of the time - modern diesel engines don't like just ticking over for hours - they get carbon buildup. And the job would be larger as more of the ancillary systems would have to be upgraded. If you don't need to change the engine I wouldn't consider it.

It is always tempting to overdo preparations in order to get things just right. Better to resist, embrace "good enough" and get out cruising.

Greg

[Rhapsody-NS27]

Originally Posted by Kevin84

Oh, I know they are. I drive one for a living. Does Yanmar have a repair manual for their engines? That might be required reading.

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You may be able to find a manual online.

If needed, you can try looking for a parts catalog on the link I posted here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gs-104630.html

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

You've got some good advice. Negotiating aside, if you do end up owning the boat then you likely can get the current engine running well for a few thousand.

In an ideal world you would like to have 38-50hp in this boat, given the current views towards auxiliary power, but 30hp is plenty for most situations. For the entire time I was out cruising I had an 18hp engine in my boat, which tipped the scales at 23.5k lbs. For the traditional use of an auxiliary - getting in/out of harbor and when there is no wind - the engine served well. The current thinking is to be more of a motorsailor and be capable of powering into wind and sea, which was very marginal for my smaller engine. The 30hp would obviously do a lot better in your intended boat. But changing it out to gain an extra 8-10hp? That is extravagant. The performance gains would be modest but the costs high. And going for say 50hp would leave you overpowered most of the time - modern diesel engines don't like just ticking over for hours - they get carbon buildup. And the job would be larger as more of the ancillary systems would have to be upgraded. If you don't need to change the engine I wouldn't consider it.

It is always tempting to overdo preparations in order to get things just right. Better to resist, embrace "good enough" and get out cruising.

Greg

That's good advice. Repower is my last choice. If I get the money to, great, but it's not a priority

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[Stumble]

I would also make sure you have the right size prop. It isn't uncommon for people to make the switch to a feathering prop and undersize it substantially.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Horror Hotel

Engines can't be rebuilt endlessly, even if this is actually the first full on rebuild the life is not going to be the same as a new engine. Also shops who do rebuild engines and don't sell new will be apt to tell you rebuilding is a good idea. A good rebuild will cost half as much but last half as long. Either way if you don't do it yourself it will cost a lot more. I don't see a engine trans combo costing any more than 12k plus some odds and ends. The odds and ends will be another 2-3k, I can't see you spending much more than 15k for DIY. It's the labor that gets you but DIY is only for the mechanically inclined. Most yards mark up the engine like everything else, bills grow quick. I just bought a new 3ym30, $9200 w/ shipping, ready to run. Paid the yard $50 to fork it into the pilot house and that was the only marina services I paid for. Besides the 3 nights I spent at their work wall at $48 a day. After that I finished it up at a mooring ball, ordering from defender as needed. Don't be fooled it took lots of hours, any yard that quotes it out at 20 hours will screw you and you'll end up at 60 anyway. I talked to some very respected yards and got all kinds of quotes. The more tech questions I asked the more defensive they got, to the point where some flat out told me to piss off. A week before they were ready to do it. Most just want you to cut the check and not ask how 40hrs became 65hrs. I read somewhere online about a 3ym30 swap that cost 30k, 8k of it was glass stringer work. That guy got screwed super hard and thought it was a legit bill. Be vary careful. Good luck .

I'm wondering if you could enlighten me as to why an engine would not be as good as new with new parts (rings, seal, journals, end bearings, followers and such). My rebuild was about $3K and $2K outside labor (cleaning up the bore, reground valves and seats, new rod journals, bushings, rings and seals). So total was $5K and a new 45hp. engine is around $14K, plus engine bed modifications if a different engine is used. Then of course there is the prop change. Another $800.
As a Harley mechanic in my 20's our engines saw longer life than factory engines.
Attention paid to tolerances and small improvements in the oil pump and flow through the oil ways go very far to improve an engines ultimate life.