Rebuilding Perkins 4108

[marcjsmith]

Gotcha.... Spitballing here . return line blocked? if you don't have a functioning return line, you'd end up with possible ruptured or leaking hoses, blown seals inside the pump and such as the fuel pressure keeps building and has nowhere to go.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...on-186721.html

[deblen]

The 4108 has been around since the 1960's.
It is so common worldwide,that you can get service about anywhere.
It has it's (well known) weak design points,but can be up-graded to correct (some) of these. It is simple,basic,reliable,& IMHO-a good choice for use in areas & budgets that are not currently capable of servicing the latest electronic wonders.

No connection or personal experience with Foley.
https://www.foleyengines.com/tech-ti...-21st-century/


Cheers/Len
This post is mostly personal opinion,supplemented by personal experience & observation.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by deblen

The 4108 has been around since the 1960's.
It is so common worldwide,that you can get service about anywhere.
It has it's (well known) weak design points,but can be up-graded to correct (some) of these. It is simple,basic,reliable,& IMHO-a good choice for use in areas & budgets that are not currently capable of servicing the latest electronic wonders.

No connection or personal experience with Foley.
https://www.foleyengines.com/tech-ti...-21st-century/


Cheers/Len
This post is mostly personal opinion,supplemented by personal experience & observation.

4108 was used in many,many worldwide applications.
I recommend you look outside the marine industry,for frugal solutions.
We don't all have bottomless purses & not all of us are long distance boaters,or can justify(afford) perfect,ideal,unlimited $ cost solutions.

Give us a break! Pass on your positive,practical,solutions.

Cheers/Len

[SailnParadise]

Yes. I'm looking for a very low cost solution. Wife and 2 kids to take care of so can't justify $1,000 or more on getting it running if it can be done for $100.

To reiterate my current issue: It turns over but the sounds is "hollow" that's the best way I can describe it. I have went over the fuel system 4 times. I replaced the primary filter the 1st time it stalled. Replacing both gaskets. There is NO air coming out at any of the bleed points. I have cracked the injectors and still nothing. I have been thru the bleed process multiple other times in the past and never had these issues.

Might is be a compression issue from the previous owner's overuse of ether?

Might it be a clog in the injector pump? (getting clean unobstructed fuel from all three bleed points on it)

Clogged injectors?

I'm looking for a DIY solution or inexpensive way of diagnosing what the problem is.


I am under a time crunch to get it running so that I can move the boat away from it current anchorage (very hazardous if a storm comes thru: quite a few derelicts that will break free, and exposed to the ocean in high winds)

[SailnParadise]

I'm getting fuel at the injectors with the fuel pump running. But nothing thru the return line. I just changed it and still nothing

[Lepke]

There is a small basket type filter in some injector pump fuel intakes. If you had crud get thru your filters the (last chance) basket filter could be plugged.

Another reason for a diesel shutting off is the stop solenoid or loose linkage.

Attached is a generic CAV DPA manual that may help.

Your engine runs. Don't remove or disassemble your injector pump beyond checking the filter or you'll be sailing home.

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by SailnParadise

That's what I am trying to avoid. I've been slowly fixing the issues. No glow pugs hooked up, fixed the injector clamp (bolt was switched by previous owner so it was too long causing it to be over tightened before it was seated correctly), the starting problems where at least temporarily a fuel purity issue. I will be sailing more than motoring in the short term in order to get her back to the US near a good mechanic. So I just need to get it running well enough to get close to a professional.

Right now my main issue seems to be the Ignition Switch/Alternator wiring. Just bought a new Starter and Alternator prior to the trip where the stall happened. The only other time the engine stalled in the previous months was when the main fuel line came out of its ziptie and touched the belt which caused air bubbles. So my thought would be the fuel again. I wasn't getting clear fuel at the return after the injectors so I need to solve that problem. I've already cleaned the tank and replaced all lines and filters.

I’m stopping right here and giving my opinion which you can weigh with the others.

Having owned a 40yo 4108 I can tell you it needs to be removed to solve your problems. I’ll also add that your description of the coolant leak is likely going to require a new header tank and some machine work. They all deteriorate in the same location. May I suggest you contact transatlantic diesel and ask them what replacement parts are available and why they no longer offer rebuilt marinized 4108’s.

Mine was removed and sold for $1800 in better condition than what you are describing yours to be in. There’s a Beta in its place but Yanmar or any other modern option will do. A do it yourself engine replacement is north of $15k and imo your best option if you feel the rest of your boat is in good shape.

The problem isn’t that you can’t get yourself back to a decent long block the issue is everything that bolts to that motor and makes it function in a marine environment is no longer manufactured.

[skipperpete]

Here’s Growleymonsters post on an earlier thread, the one where you linked to a photo of a newly rebuilt injector pump showing a sealed anti stall valve.
“Oh, you must mean the anti-stall device. It is not an anti-seize valve. I only know as much as I can glean from the manual. I do know that you shouldn't diddle with it without knowing what you are doing, and frankly I do not. I would first be absolutely triple dawg certain that the pump is at fault, and then, and only then, call a pro.”

That’s the best advice so far! The techs put that tamperproof seal on there for a very good reason and it might help your cause to post some pictures of your actual injector pump rather than a copy and paste of a newly installed rebuilt injector pump.
The copy and paste of the Perkins-Shibaura engine to indicate glow plugs only added to the confusion, a photo of your actual engine rather than a completely different engine would have cleared up that particular dead end.
There’s no low budget fix for whatever is going on with your engine, a service on the injector pump is usually somewhere between $700 and $1200, the oil leak would likely cost $200—$1000 ( assuming its a perforated oil pan and the engine has to be lifted out) or a “ minimum callout charge “ $ 50-100 if its just a loose sump plug….not many diesel mechanics like to do a dinghy trip to an anchored boat to try and fix an engine with numerous unrelated symptoms ( you have a fuel problem, a large oil leak and electrical/starter problems as well as the curious “hollow cranking “ sound)..
Good luck with your engine woes, you’ll certainly know a lot more about the systems that are needed to keep your engine running happily by the time you get to the end of this rough patch.

[Tillikum]

If as you say, the previous owner over-tightened the injector-retaining clamps, you should probably replace the "crush-washers" that make the seal between the heads of the injectors and the engine block.

If you don't know when the injector nozzles were last replaced or at least cleaned and reset, you should have that done too. Dirty fuel clogs injectors and ultimately destroys them. If you're lucky those clogged or damaged nozzles don't then damage your pistons or cylinder bores by turning fuel spray in a fuel jet. etc. etc.

There really is no substitute for clean fuel and clean engine oil. If you want a cheap solution that works better than the expensive ones, get Frantz filters on both.

Those who cannot think or won't can keep the filter industry going for the rest of us.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by SailnParadise

Just trying to get suggestions before I try to take the engine apart.

If you lost oil while it's just sitting you need to figure out where before taking it apart. It should not lose oil sitting. Crack in the oil pan?
I'm not sure a rebuild can be done sitting in the boat, do you intend to take it out of position onto the cabin floor or something like that?
Fuel issue: Check to make sure your tank vents aren't clogged by insects. IF the engine dies, open the filler fitting.... is there a vacuum you can hear as you open it?

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by mcon12000

I’m stopping right here and giving my opinion which you can weigh with the others.

Having owned a 40yo 4108 I can tell you it needs to be removed to solve your problems. I’ll also add that your description of the coolant leak is likely going to require a new header tank and some machine work. They all deteriorate in the same location. May I suggest you contact transatlantic diesel and ask them what replacement parts are available and why they no longer offer rebuilt marinized 4108’s.

Mine was removed and sold for $1800 in better condition than what you are describing yours to be in. There’s a Beta in its place but Yanmar or any other modern option will do. A do it yourself engine replacement is north of $15k and imo your best option if you feel the rest of your boat is in good shape.

The problem isn’t that you can’t get yourself back to a decent long block the issue is everything that bolts to that motor and makes it function in a marine environment is no longer manufactured.

We just made the decision to replace our Perkins 4.108. The injection pump needed repair and at least one or more injector clamp bolt holes needed to be re-tapped. Pulling the engine was a good step but, after spending several days trying to find parts (a critical bolt fell somewhere in the engine bay and disappeared, one of the injector clamps cracked,) we decided to repower. As noted in the quote, finding parts in North America for a 40 year old British engine is not easy.

This was a hard decision. We had just spent roughly $2500 replacing the mechanical lift pump with an electric version, and as well, had all of the injectors pulled, cleaned, calibrated and re-installed. Not cheap.