Replacement engine: Volvo or Yanmar? Common rail or mechanical?

[Rotten Ricky]

Originally Posted by roryboy

Looked at the specs. The Beta is a 3.77 liter engine making 105 hp @2600 the Yanmar 4JH110 is a 2 liter engine making 110 hp @ 3200

Let that sink in a minute.

OK, you are wanting a response.... quite a difference but that is not the whole story....

You are getting a lighter and more powerful Volvo that is supposed to use less fuel (or does it?) than the heavier Yanmar - or probably similar Kubota-based engine. What about torque? Far more important than HP on a boat!

But notice the revs?!!

Every engineer and mechanic on the planet will tell you, everything else being equal, that a smaller, faster-revving, harder-working engine will wear out faster and need more maintenance than a slower-revving, less-stressed engine.

Someone said that all the mounts, hoses and wiring will all be different with a different brand. That might be only partly true but can usually be adjusted for. Weight difference of the engine will be negligible on a boat this size. And parts and service are everywhere and at reasonable cost for Kubota/Beta/Universal etc.

The claimed fuel savings might not be true in practice. We are all trying to use less fuel but I would definitely go with the reliability - and therefore safety - of the lower-tech Beta or similar.

Volvo (and Yanmar) are pricing themselves out of the market. There is a reason for the saying "if you need to repair a Volvo or Yanmar, replace it with a Kubota-based engine".


Cheers, RR.

[bil56]

if a classic engine doesn't like dirt, water and bacteria in diesel, a common rail will absolutely hate it and can't get over it!
therefore a very very fine filtration system is necessary

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sailormed

Beta Marine, also purely mechanical.

Beta, would be my choice too. Simple and much cheaper parts

[Pegu Club]

I would recommend Beta, primarily because it can be worked on pretty much anywhere you might find yourself, parts are by and large less expensive being a Kubota engine, the specific marinized bits are specific to the engine, the rest are widely available, iirc.

Fair winds,

[Evergreen]

Beta Marine --- mechanical

[ohthetrees]

If you do replace the engine , you might ask yourself if your really need a 110hp replacement. In my opinion, many newer boats are overpowered. That means their engines habitually run under loaded (not good for the engine), and are less efficient than a properly sized engine. How often did you most of those 110 hp? If I ever have to repower, I’ll be going down a size.

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

If you do replace the engine , you might ask yourself if your really need a 110hp replacement. In my opinion, many newer boats are overpowered. That means their engines habitually run under loaded (not good for the engine), and are less efficient than a properly sized engine. How often did you most of those 110 hp? If I ever have to repower, I’ll be going down a size.

Good point. Engines have a power range of maximum efficiency. Running for extended periods below this can be detrimental. The engine may not reach normal operating temperature so that normal thermal expansion of components may not be achieved. Incomplete combustion can cause a host of problems such as lack of lubrication from fuel dilution. Injectors, combustion chambers, and valves can foul with soot deposits. And of course efficiency suffers. Need to find out power required for hull resistance at expected cruising speed, factoring in extra resistance of wind and current. With these variables considered, an exact HP rating and torque figure may not be an exact science. Most of us just deal with the engine that we already have, so spec'ing an engine can take some research.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by cottonsail

Bought a new Volvo Penta D2-50. Great engine, horrible company. The installation manual does not come with the engine. It can only be down loaded by a Volvo tech. There is no national tech support phone number. It is directed to a local dealer. Don't buy Volvo Penta.

Yep, very manipulative practices...just to grossly iflate prices on engines and parts they dont even make. Volvo is just a reseller.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yep, very manipulative practices...just to grossly iflate prices on engines and parts they dont even make. Volvo is just a reseller.

True. I am just surprised there is no aftermarket company selling the diagnose equipment for volvos. The stuff the volvo tech had was quite primitive and a beginner could reproduce that diagnostic stuff easily. Compared to cars thats stonage technology.
The product cycles are long and between cycles not much change on the eletronic side so you would have a huge customer base.
And eg the d2-50 is a perkins engine, won't the diagnose equipment from Perkins work?

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yep, very manipulative practices...just to grossly iflate prices on engines and parts they dont even make. Volvo is just a reseller.

If the age of the hull will allow it by emissions standards, better off to overhaul a simple old mechanical injection diesel. A good overhaul can be as reliable as a new one, or perhaps more reliable. You avoid the abuse that manufactures and dealers impose on their new gear. If opting for new though, it seems that you cannot assume what should be standard practice such as supplied manuals. Need to get those details settled before signing the purchase agreement. If they will not supply manuals without extra charge, I would just walk away. If they can't toss in a couple of books and a disk or free download, they are not worth dealing with. The goods are of no use without the info. And I would demand bound copies along with digital manuals. Engines that are widely used on land equipment may have good options for after market parts, or at least the network of dealers will be bigger.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

True. I am just surprised there is no aftermarket company selling the diagnose equipment for volvos. The stuff the volvo tech had was quite primitive and a beginner could reproduce that diagnostic stuff easily. Compared to cars thats stonage technology.

The product cycles are long and between cycles not much change on the eletronic side so you would have a huge customer base.

And eg the d2-50 is a perkins engine, won't the diagnose equipment from Perkins work?

I dont know, I have zero experience with the Volvo/Perkins control systems. Even if a simple control system they can still make it more of a challenge to reverse engineer by keeping any specs/protocols protected.

I did a little consulting on one of the first GM diagnostics systems. It was one of the highest security non-military projects I ever encountered. The reason for the tight security was protection of Dealership revenue.

Of course, you could just ditch their control system and roll your own. Might be easier and ultimately yield a better result than reverse-guessing theirs. There are some existing open source ECU/EMS's out there.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I dont know, I have zero experience with the Volvo/Perkins control systems. Even if a simple control system they can still make it more of a challenge to reverse engineer by keeping any specs/protocols protected.

I did a little consulting on one of the first GM diagnostics systems. It was one of the highest security non-military projects I ever encountered. The reason for the tight security was protection of Dealership revenue.

Of course, you could just ditch their control system and roll your own. Might be easier and ultimately yield a better result than reverse-guessing theirs. There are some existing open source ECU/EMS's out there.

I know i was in senior management in aftersales at several OEMs
But there are always a huge number of independent workshops in cars and trucks and they need diagnose equipment too. And a lot companies provided always diagnostic equipment for them, even for a big number of manufacturers in one tool. With tablets that even went to a Bluetooth dongle with an adapter cable and an app with the data needed.

But i cannt find similar for marine. Vocom is around 3000Euro the cheapest i found for Volvo diesels. For gasoline and outboards you get away with around 1000bucks for rinda.com

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I know i was in senior management in aftersales at several OEMs
But there are always a huge number of independent workshops in cars and trucks and they need diagnose equipment too. And a lot companies provided always diagnostic equipment for them, even for a big number of manufacturers in one tool. With tablets that even went to a Bluetooth dongle with an adapter cable and an app with the data needed.

But i cannt find similar for marine. Vocom is around 3000Euro the cheapest i found for Volvo diesels. For gasoline and outboards you get away with around 1000bucks for rinda.com

When one considers that fairly capable OBDII vehicle scanners can be had a hundred to several to hundred dollars, this is Highway robbery, or better said, seaway robbery.

[MARC D]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I know i was in senior management in aftersales at several OEMs
But there are always a huge number of independent workshops in cars and trucks and they need diagnose equipment too. And a lot companies provided always diagnostic equipment for them, even for a big number of manufacturers in one tool. With tablets that even went to a Bluetooth dongle with an adapter cable and an app with the data needed.

But i cannt find similar for marine. Vocom is around 3000Euro the cheapest i found for Volvo diesels. For gasoline and outboards you get away with around 1000bucks for rinda.com

And even that is no longer true with the newest Volvo installations. Without an up to date Vodia, you cannot start a brand new engine for the initial run. Even less make any diagnostic with Rinda…

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

When one considers that fairly capable OBDII vehicle scanners can be had a hundred to several to hundred dollars, this is Highway robbery, or better said, seaway robbery.

And its not only she common OBD2 standards... The scanners can decode nearly all OEM specfic codes too. Eg VAGcom you can read out, erase and program the ECUs for 300 for 3 chassis numbers or 500 for unlimited.

Tell me where i can find a scanner for volvo penta diesel for 300 bucks i get it right away, even 500 would be ok. Especially the big volume small D1-D3 engines its very basic but nothing that a normal cruiser can afford is available