Sometimes the start solenoid just clicks

[Ryban]

I've been having an issue with my Vetus M4.14 since I bought my boat that I still haven't fully resolved.

Sometimes when going to start the engine, the solenoid just clicks, but the engine does not crank. If I wait a few seconds and try again, it usually cranks, and if not on the 2nd attempt, then on the 3rd or 4th. It always does start, but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence to just get a "click" when going to start your engine.

At first I thought it was a voltage-drop issue -- and it might still be (I have a thread about that here:https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-270778.html from some time ago). However, I have since replaced nearly all the wiring from the start bank to the engine, upsized it, and shortened the runs. I have not re-done my voltage drop tests, but the issue does persist.

It's not a battery issue, as my batteries are new, with all new wire terminals, and I have 2 x 6Vs for my start bank, and 4 x 6Vs for my house bank, and the problem will persist regardless of whether the batteries are combined or not (6 x 6Vs, fully charged).

I'll re-do the voltage drop tests and see where we're at, but I'm starting to think maybe it's actually an issue within the solenoid or starter battery -- perhaps burnt or damaged contactor / main heads? It's not super easy for me to access the starter, but would it be a good ideal to take the cover off the front of the solenoid and inspect these contacts? In my mind, I feel like even though the pinion is always being thrown, sometimes the contact made internally is poor because of the (unknown) condition of these surfaces, and the starter motor coils don't always energize.

[Franziska]

Sounds like a stuck solenoid. Sometimes they have a bit of corrosion on the inside. Tap the solenoid with a hammer and it comes loose.
Usually that helps.
If it doesn't, replace it or have it rebuilt.

Good luck.

[Bill O]

Do not know how old the motor is, but w/the starter in a difficult area to remove, it's probably original/not been maintained. Hard to tell by your description, but could be the solenoid, the bendix, etc. starting to go.

A starter is a very important part of getting the motor to fire up and is nice for it to work when you push the button. It would be worth the effort to remove it and take to a starter rebuild shop in your area to have it checked out. After that you will have confidence it will work like it should again.

[s/v Jedi]

Many engines have a relay in between the keys with and the solenoid. This was the problem in my case.

It’s easier to test in place than to remove.

[skipperpete]

All good advice. There is also the vague possibility that the pinion and ring gear are having a disagreement. For some reason engines seem to stop at one point (or 3 points) of rotation and the starter pinion wears that section of the ring gear teeth flat on an area that normally has a bevel. Next time you get the “click click” just manually rotate the engine 10° or more and try again. If it then starts immediately this could be part of the problem

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

All good advice. There is also the vague possibility that the pinion and ring gear are having a disagreement. For some reason engines seem to stop at one point (or 3 points) of rotation and the starter pinion wears that section of the ring gear teeth flat on an area that normally has a bevel. Next time you get the “click click” just manually rotate the engine 10° or more and try again. If it then starts immediately this could be part of the problem

The only problem with this is that, is that it would be more of a proof negative test, where if it doesn't start, then it probably/maybe isn't the issue, because generally if I wait a few seconds and try again it works anyway.

Wouldn't the starter still be pulling current in this scenario, or not?

[Searles]

Go for a corroded solenoid ,dirty contacts ,or more than likely worn or stuck brushes in the starter motor ,quick test ,is the solenoid getting hot or verry hot ,high resistance .⛵️⚓️

[Nicholson58]

Replace the solenoid and keep new spare. The contractor disk becomes eroded and eventually fails. It was possible in the past to buy just te disk assembly but no more. If you are skilled, make a new disk of copper, same dimensions. Keep this as an emergency spare.

Shown, westerbeke starter. Total new starter, complete solenoid was $35 US

[Bill O]

Yes, you can cheaply replace solenoids and is good to have a heavy duty spare on hand.
We did this, but eventually the starter itself needed to be rebuilt (the solenoid was still good).

Like all mechanical things starters have parts in them that need to be replaced.

While it may be a pita to get the starter out, it would save yourself the mental anguish/time of trying to troubleshoot by guess replacement of parts and let a rebuild shop inspect/fix it.

[Ryban]

Is there somewhere I can check part compatibility? The Vetus specific starter/relay is pretty pricey at ~$140+ (e.g. https://www.tradeinn.com/waveinn/en/...ay/139196613/p). But I have to assume this is a pretty generic part based on the construction.

The equivalent Mitsubishi engine is the K4, and it looks like I can pick up an entire starter motor/solenoid for about the same price (https://www.amazon.com/MITSUBISHI-ST.../dp/B008Y3O22W) though I can't speak for the build quality.

[Bill O]

Ryban,
Did a quick search and found the Vetus M4.14 cross referenced to a Mitsubishi K4E-61DM. https://det-mitsubishi.com/en/mitsub...ications/vetus

Can you confirm this is the correct motor from your research?

If so, starter solenoids for the K4E are ~$31 ebay and amazon.

Here was a slightly cheaper starter for the K4E. NEW MITSUBISHI MARINE STARTER K4E K4F 61-DM 61-DML 61-WM 62-WM M002T50381 M002T50391 - AJ Electric

[Scubaseas]

You should have at least 11.5 Volts at the yellow wire going into the solenoid. The solenoid grounds through the brushes in the starter so a stuck brush could give your symptoms. As would burnt contacts in the starter. If you have less than 11.5 Volts on start then check for a bad relay or add a relay. Alternately you can wire in a starter button using 10 ga wire and avoid any issue with relays all together. Do not smack the side of the starter itself as you can damage the permanent magnets.

[Ryban]

I had a memory of seeing a spare starter motor on the boat when we first bought it, but had sort of forgotten about it with all the other engine spares. I went to the boat tonight and sure enough, brand new starter motor and solenoid. The previous owner was pretty meticulous and kept receipts for everything, so I know it was bought in 2006, likely as a spare.

In any case, I wasn't planning to do this project tonight, and was worried it would take way longer than I planned (as most boat projects do), but that wasn't the case tonight. The old starter came out without any trouble, and the new one fit right in place. I wired it back up, and gave the engine a start. Not only did I not encounter any "clicks but no cranks", the engine cranked much more enthusiastically and started in a few seconds as opposed to the normal 6-8 seconds.

I'll disassemble the old unit and take a look, as I am curious to see what problem or problems were present, and to learn a bit more about the unit.

[Nicholson58]

When you open the solenoid case the contact disc will probably look like mine in post#8. You should be able to find a replacement on the internet. Also inspect the brushes and commutator ring. Always keep spare brushes. They are cheap but hard to find in far away places.

[Bill O]

Glad you remembered about the spare starter, which made this a much easier fix.
Would repair the old starter for a spare. The "how-tos" are all over online, so no real need to go over an extensive discussion here. If you don't feel comfortable doing the rebuild yourself, look for a starter rebuild shop and take it in. Usually a rebuild is much cheaper than buying a new one.

As mentioned, inspecting/replacing (if needed) the solenoid is easy. Only suggestion is to purchase a heavy duty version if possible. Inspecting/replacing brushes are also easy. Etc, etc. checking all components

Once rebuilt, would bench test to make certain it works properly before you pack it away. (caution here is to secure the starter well before you bench test it)