Suzuki DF 9.9 runs then not

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Went back out to the boat yesterday. Had it tied up on a slip. Started motor, it started very easily. Left it on idle and it ran smoothly for >30 mins. After that first half hour, I revved it in neutral and it was missing and red light came on in < 30 seconds. Ran roughly for a couple minutes then quit.
Took it back to the shop.
Will let you know!

Thanks for the awesome updates.
It will be interesting what codes is in it now.
And, what the shops reasoning for its mistake in telling you that it was repaired.
Boatyarddog

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Thanks for the awesome updates.
It will be interesting what codes is in it now.
And, what the shops reasoning for its mistake in telling you that it was repaired.
Boatyarddog

Agree. He said that after the prior repair (throttle body replacement) the tech ran it in a tank for an hour and it ran fine. I just don't get it.

[Captain Bill]

It may just be a sticking thermostat that opens sometimes or partially opens and is enough cooling to work for a while at idle speeds. Taking off the thermostat cover is really not that hard The intake must be removed but that is only one 10mm bolt if I remember correctly. One harness must be unbolted and removed with a 12mm and the 10mm screw must be removed from the other one, but the connector need only be rotated out of the way, but not removed. After that the three 10mm thermostat cover bolts need to be removed. The upper two are easy but the lower one is a bit tedious as you need a 12 point box end wrench and can only move it about 30 degrees at a time. It takes a few minutes to do that. By the way the 12mm that holds on the one harness also holds on the head zinc cover and you'll probably want to check that zinc while your there.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

It may just be a sticking thermostat that opens sometimes or partially opens and is enough cooling to work for a while at idle speeds. Taking off the thermostat cover is really not that hard The intake must be removed but that is only one 10mm bolt if I remember correctly. One harness must be unbolted and removed with a 12mm and the 10mm screw must be removed from the other one, but the connector need only be rotated out of the way, but not removed. After that the three 10mm thermostat cover bolts need to be removed. The upper two are easy but the lower one is a bit tedious as you need a 12 point box end wrench and can only move it about 30 degrees at a time. It takes a few minutes to do that. By the way the 12mm that holds on the one harness also holds on the head zinc cover and you'll probably want to check that zinc while your there.

Hi Bill
Can't argue with you that it is worth checking. The motor should be throwing an over temp error code, if that is the problem, yes? Also, it is a new thermostat. Would have to be a defective new thermostat.
Will let you know!
Les

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Hi Bill
Can't argue with you that it is worth checking. The motor should be throwing an over temp error code, if that is the problem, yes? Also, it is a new thermostat. Would have to be a defective new thermostat.
Will let you know!
Les

If the block is clogged a new thermostat won't help. Would you like to see my collection some time? I thought I had three in a row before I decided it had to be something else.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

If the block is clogged a new thermostat won't help. Would you like to see my collection some time? I thought I had three in a row before I decided it had to be something else.

Ah, sorry, I was responding to your post #78 when you suggested a "sticking thermostat". The blocked head thing would be a super bummer.

[lestersails]

The saga continues...
The shop has told me that the motor is throwing the same error code as before, for a fault in the throttle body fuel sensor. This probably means I did not need a new throttle body ($450 part + $225 labor = ouch). He is working with a Suzuki technical service rep to research the problem. Initial suspicion is that it could be a wiring harness problem.
I am well north of $1,000 on this motor on it is still not usable. Routine service (about $200 worth of parts, my labor), timing belt (~$275), throttle body ($675), new fuel line from tank ($60).
Yeah, yeah, I know - a hole in the water into which you pour money...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by lestersails

The saga continues...
The shop has told me that the motor is throwing the same error code as before, for a fault in the throttle body fuel sensor. This probably means I did not need a new throttle body ($450 part + $225 labor = ouch). He is working with a Suzuki technical service rep to research the problem. Initial suspicion is that it could be a wiring harness problem.
I am well north of $1,000 on this motor on it is still not usable. Routine service (about $200 worth of parts, my labor), timing belt (~$275), throttle body ($675), new fuel line from tank ($60).
Yeah, yeah, I know - a hole in the water into which you pour money...

I had my suspicions, using codes to diagnosis running problems isn't sound practice.
It's used as a diagnosis tool, not a fix all solution.

Many times the technician must verify a condition is caused by the part that is flagged by codes.
The problem comes when the technician fails to "prove" the code is actually caused by the coded part.

The part has individual tests that can verify if it is good or not.
Routine diagnosis is supposed to proceed this way.
"Prove the Part"

Volume shops in a hurry or inexperience causes this.
Business owners know these "misdiagnosis" are extremely bad for the business.

Any talk about how they will address the harm done to you, by the misdiagnosis?
You should not be charged labor for the previous mistake just made by them.
I hope they make it right.
Boatyarddog

[lestersails]

Hi All
I feel like the author of The Odyssey. Another update for you. Now the Suzuki Technical Service guy is involved. Using the computer diagnostics it is reading out the same error. To address some of your prior suggestions, all temperature readings are normal. The Suzuki guy was trying to invoke 'heat soaking" - saying that using 10% ethanol fuel leads to overheating. Only two minor problems with that theory. 1) it is not throwing any over temp codes 2) I was using ethanol-free gas. My shop manager told him that was a stupid theory. What the Suzuki guy suggested next was to do diagnostic checks of the wire harness, which came out fine. His next suggestion was to replace the harness and if that does not fix it, replace the ECU. They are doing both of those without charging for the parts as a diagnostic. I suppose if it turns out one of them is in fact the problem, I will have to pay for it, but that doesn't bother me that much. I would really like to have a working motor.
Will keep you in the loop as we venture forth!
Les

[Rumrace]

I admire your determination Les.
I would have kicked it to the curb or sold it to the Suzuki expert with the dart board diagnosis.

[lestersails]

@Rumrace. Thanks for being so charitable! You could have been mean with that line of thinking but chose not to. So I'll say it - "determination" could instead be just be a stubborn old fool. It is a classic human error to focus on sunk costs - throwing good money after bad. I may end up sinking more money into this motor than its replacement value. I had considered this earlier in the summer. It is really too much motor for my boat - I think a Tohatsu 6 sail pro would probably be adequate. Those run about $2,000. However, they are on back order and may not be available until next season.
Then there is this. I am really sick and tired of throwing stuff in the landfill and buying new things instead of repairing the old. We consume tons of resources, generate mountains of garbage, and bemoan the fact that there are so few good service people out there and all the jobs have gone to Asia. Yeah, I know, one person can't change this meaningfully. But still...

[Rumrace]

I feel you. I’ve flogged a few dead horse. I took a 326 Pontiac big block apart to save and found a pin hole in two barrels.
No worries about jobs going east it’s a cycle and about to flop. Canada Europe and Japan formed a free trade union to stop changing the perceived value of our products being ruined. China has zero respect for any approval CSA UL SAE ETL CE and others. Fake labels are the majority.
There is an enablers tax of 25% for any US product not 75% US origin by material. It ends the Marco Polo middle man fetish and adds a fighting chance to quality products from the US to join our protective scope.
In another thread folks are talking about junk TVS. None of those brands are found in Canada without a direct importer who has to use a different brand name to market the junk. Two of the brands they mentioned have been proven in court from torts regarding home fires not to have a UL file.
Stanley, Moog, Wagner, Lufkin, Wisse, Cresent, Weller, Champion, Halo, and many more are now lower quality than poor quality imports in the lust for a point on a joke stock market transferring cash flow off shore forever. Fun stuff. It’s a cycle high interest rates and living beyond your means exposes the jerks.

[Rumrace]

I actually have a great deal of faith small and medium sized Us companies will kick big corps ass. Paashe Chicago has competitors in China 1/10th their price. Folks who own Paashe guns don’t want anything to do with them. Same with Badger. Two leading airbrush manufactures unfazed by China.
Buck knives - best service ever
HE Williams is a family town company, not for sale All of the major competitors are in China. No company ever gave better service in their industry. Lutron world class leader, family owned, not for sale, some cool folks
Koehler I heart.
It’s all looking up in my view.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Hi All
I feel like the author of The Odyssey. Another update for you. Now the Suzuki Technical Service guy is involved. Using the computer diagnostics it is reading out the same error. To address some of your prior suggestions, all temperature readings are normal. The Suzuki guy was trying to invoke 'heat soaking" - saying that using 10% ethanol fuel leads to overheating. Only two minor problems with that theory. 1) it is not throwing any over temp codes 2) I was using ethanol-free gas. My shop manager told him that was a stupid theory. What the Suzuki guy suggested next was to do diagnostic checks of the wire harness, which came out fine. His next suggestion was to replace the harness and if that does not fix it, replace the ECU. They are doing both of those without charging for the parts as a diagnostic. I suppose if it turns out one of them is in fact the problem, I will have to pay for it, but that doesn't bother me that much. I would really like to have a working motor.
Will keep you in the loop as we venture forth!
Les

Rumrace is correct, you've gone beyond reasonable effort on this.
I do hope it gets repaired for the ANSWERS it MAY provide.
I feel like you've paid plenty.
And you should not be charge more.
You've paid for parts to be installed that didn't repair the original problem.
A Professional Courtesy is in order.
If their current plan fixes it,those errant diags.as well those parts they installed should be counted against any charges claimed.
That my opinion.
The thing is as mentioned " it ran good before these issues started so theory dictates it will be able to run well again.
The basic engine is good, it's the supportive equipment that is problematic.
Thanks for the update again.
Boatyarddog

[lestersails]

Hi Again
Prompted by boatyard dog, here is the update. The wire harness was completely replaced and the engine was tank tested today. It went into limp mode after 30 minutes. This is interesting if you recall my prior post, it went into limp mode much sooner on my in the water test. In that test, it started fine, idled fine for quite a while, but when I throttled up, in less than 30 seconds the red light came on and it went into limp mode.
From today's test fail in the tank they had not yet pulled the codes. I am awaiting that.
Their plan for the next try was to replace the ECU.
As the Chesapeake kind of poops out in the dog days of summer I am feeling that the 2022 season is pretty much behind me.