Suzuki DF 9.9 runs then not

[lestersails]

Hey again all
Well, unfortunately for me, I think Cap'n Bill nailed it. Turns out the shop was not correctly using the diagnostics on the computer. The Suzuki TSM told them how to access codes some other way (I don't really understand this) and learned that it was a "heat gradient alarm". This is apparently distinct from overheating - the motor never reaches an actual overheat temperature, but instead detects a too rapid rise in temperature and goes into limp mode.
The shop manager says that he could tear it down and try to flush it, that that would cost $500-800 in labor, and there is no guarantee that it would work because they cannot access all the passages. I looked online - a replacement cylinder head block for the motor is $1,300 and that is with no labor (and I would worry would not include all potentially blocked passages).
By the way, the shop said no charge for all this work - aligning with what you guys said they should do.
So it looks like my boat dealer sold me a dead outboard.
Looks like I should just junk it and get a new motor.
Really sucks.

[GreenWave]

Probably time to sell it for parts and move on. Bummer. I just had to do same with a 2011 Yamaha. But after getting a new outboard that was the best decision I ever made.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Hey again all
Well, unfortunately for me, I think Cap'n Bill nailed it. Turns out the shop was not correctly using the diagnostics on the computer. The Suzuki TSM told them how to access codes some other way (I don't really understand this) and learned that it was a "heat gradient alarm". This is apparently distinct from overheating - the motor never reaches an actual overheat temperature, but instead detects a too rapid rise in temperature and goes into limp mode.
The shop manager says that he could tear it down and try to flush it, that that would cost $500-800 in labor, and there is no guarantee that it would work because they cannot access all the passages. I looked online - a replacement cylinder head block for the motor is $1,300 and that is with no labor (and I would worry would not include all potentially blocked passages).
By the way, the shop said no charge for all this work - aligning with what you guys said they should do.
So it looks like my boat dealer sold me a dead outboard.
Looks like I should just junk it and get a new motor.
Really sucks.

Geeze!!
Any chance this "gradient" alarm could be disabled?
Leaving it up to overheat or not?
Boatyarddog

[Rumrace]

It’s painful to read you go through this. I was going to say “ Yamaha” $600.00 ago

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

It’s painful to read you go through this. I was going to say “ Yamaha” $600.00 ago

Yeah, that's the truth. One of the classic human weaknesses is throwing good money after bad. It is hard to walk away from sunk costs.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Geeze!!
Any chance this "gradient" alarm could be disabled?
Leaving it up to overheat or not?
Boatyarddog

BYD - I didn't specifically ask, but would bet dollars to donuts that that is programmed into the ROM of the ECU. You would have to think it is the same sensor as that used for the overtemp alarm.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Probably time to sell it for parts and move on. Bummer. I just had to do same with a 2011 Yamaha. But after getting a new outboard that was the best decision I ever made.

Thanks for this. What is the best venue for advertising it? Obviously, it needs to be pretty local because shipping is crazy expensive for a unit like this. Ebay local listing? Craigslist? CF classifieds?

[lestersails]

And where is ol' Cap'n Bill? He nailed it a long ways back and has earned an "I told you so".

[Captain Bill]

I won't gloat as I did forget that the rate alarm triggers before the overheat actually happens. Before I took my head apart I replaced the temperature sensor to see if that was the problem. In my defense that was early in my own personal saga and a lot of work had taken place since then.

[lestersails]

Just to take a little more advantage of your wisdom...
So, I bit the bullet and dropped $2K on a new Tohatsu 6 hp ultra long shaft sail pro. Arguably a more appropriate motor for this boat.
Go to pick it up after paying for it over the phone. Salesman is not there at our agreed upon pick up time. Personal emergency. Nice lady in the office really has no knowledge of motors. I point out to her that it has no tank and fuel line, so she rummages around and takes a new Tohatsu tank from another 6 hp motor. Gets a fuel line off the shelf.
I filled it with (alcohol-free!) gas, mount it up, connect the alternator lead, and put the boat in the drink.
First pull - it starts! Runs for about 15-20 seconds and then dies. Will not start. Vent on tank open. Bulb squeezed until hard. Guy on dock next to me says ("Sounds like it is not getting fuel"*).
Called dealer back, asks me to bring it in. Stated that it worked fine before I came in to pick it up (using which tank and fuel line I do not know). I politely responded that I thought it was their responsibility to go to the boat (it is about a 20 minute drive from the dealer and a 50 minute drive from where I live) and get it working.

The fuel line to motor connection does not seem like it is perfectly latching on - it sits at a very slight, but visible to the naked eye, angle. It is cocked just slightly such that the part of the connector on the side of the holding pin (correct term?) is being held tight, but on the fuel line side of the connector there is a maybe 1/2-1 mm gap. Is that my problem?

The other thing that I noticed is that the motor came with a document titled "Pre-delivery Inspection" with a bunch of things for the dealer to check and then sign. It is blank. When I asked about this, he said "Oh, we don't fill those out, we do them online with Tohatsu".

In a moment of exasperation, my question to you - does everything related to outboards suck?


*How could he tell that from the sound?

[Captain Bill]

I once had a tohatsu 6 that has an internal tank and if I remember correctly it did not come with an external tank. Since yours was delivered initially without a tank, I can't help but wonder if you have the same model. If so, the fuel selector valve might be on the internal tank that might have had a small amount of fuel in it. To run on the external tank the selector valve must be set to the external tank. I'm remembering this from almost 9 years ago so it might not be your issue on a new model. I just looked up the owners manual and there is a fuel cock lever on the right side of the engine looking aft. Oddly enough I could not find anywhere which position selected which tank, but I imagine that what ever position it's in now does not select the external tank.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I once had a tohatsu 6 that has an internal tank and if I remember correctly it did not come with an external tank. Since yours was delivered initially without a tank, I can't help but wonder if you have the same model. If so, the fuel selector valve might be on the internal tank that might have had a small amount of fuel in it. To run on the external tank the selector valve must be set to the external tank. I'm remembering this from almost 9 years ago so it might not be your issue on a new model. I just looked up the owners manual and there is a fuel cock lever on the right side of the engine looking aft. Oddly enough I could not find anywhere which position selected which tank, but I imagine that what ever position it's in now does not select the external tank.

Hi Cap'n Bill
Thanks! This is the SailPro 6 hp model that does NOT have an internal fuel tank. I wonder if it even has that valve? I searched the manual - no mention of such a valve. That valve is not listed as a potential issue in the trouble shooting section headed "engine will not start".
Les

[Captain Bill]

Sorry I missed the sailpro part and was not of much help. To answer your earlier question, it's not just outboards that suck, but boat parts in general.



Also, I just looked at my fuel line on my 15hp Tohatsu and there is no gap at all between the engine side and the hose side. Did the dealer pull the tank off of a engine of the same model?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Sorry I missed the sailpro part and was not of much help. To answer your earlier question, it's not just outboards that suck, but boat parts in general.



Also, I just looked at my fuel line on my 15hp Tohatsu and there is no gap at all between the engine side and the hose side. Did the dealer pull the tank off of a engine of the same model?

Great question. The person who helped me was a non-boat/motor savvy office staff who just grabbed a new tank from another Tohatsu motor that was not the exact same model and a hose off of a shelf. There is no reason to think that it was from the same motor (the 6 hp sailpro that I bought was the only one they had). I did finally get through to the service side today who agreed with you - there should be no gap at all there. He is going to bring out a proper hose tomorrow!

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Just to take a little more advantage of your wisdom...
So, I bit the bullet and dropped $2K on a new Tohatsu 6 hp ultra long shaft sail pro. Arguably a more appropriate motor for this boat.
Go to pick it up after paying for it over the phone. Salesman is not there at our agreed upon pick up time. Personal emergency. Nice lady in the office really has no knowledge of motors. I point out to her that it has no tank and fuel line, so she rummages around and takes a new Tohatsu tank from another 6 hp motor. Gets a fuel line off the shelf.
I filled it with (alcohol-free!) gas, mount it up, connect the alternator lead, and put the boat in the drink.
First pull - it starts! Runs for about 15-20 seconds and then dies. Will not start. Vent on tank open. Bulb squeezed until hard. Guy on dock next to me says ("Sounds like it is not getting fuel"*).
Called dealer back, asks me to bring it in. Stated that it worked fine before I came in to pick it up (using which tank and fuel line I do not know). I politely responded that I thought it was their responsibility to go to the boat (it is about a 20 minute drive from the dealer and a 50 minute drive from where I live) and get it working.

The fuel line to motor connection does not seem like it is perfectly latching on - it sits at a very slight, but visible to the naked eye, angle. It is cocked just slightly such that the part of the connector on the side of the holding pin (correct term?) is being held tight, but on the fuel line side of the connector there is a maybe 1/2-1 mm gap. Is that my problem?

The other thing that I noticed is that the motor came with a document titled "Pre-delivery Inspection" with a bunch of things for the dealer to check and then sign. It is blank. When I asked about this, he said "Oh, we don't fill those out, we do them online with Tohatsu".

In a moment of exasperation, my question to you - does everything related to outboards suck?


*How could he tell that from the sound?

I'll chime in, just to distract me from the BS Political joke Thread.

If you've been thru the mill with gasoline engine woes, you'll get an "Ear" for troubleshooting their particular issues.

A flooded engine sounds much different than a lean or "needs"fuel engine during cranking, and even while running, ( popping, backfiring are examples)

The problem to me here is the lack of service to someone that just laid 2K down for a solution to their past outboard.
This piece of BS in particular gets to me...

Quote:
Called dealer back, asks me to bring it in. Stated that it worked fine before I came in to pick it up (using which tank and fuel line I do not know). I politely responded that I thought it was their responsibility to go to the boat (it is about a 20 minute drive from the dealer and a 50 minute drive from where I live) and get it working.

Really bad service ediquette already???
The fact it ran first start, is probably the fact it had fuel in the carb Bowl? and there is a problem getting fuel to the carb, from the new tank, hose set up.
Not every OB manufacturing company uses the same fuel delivery set up.
Mostly they are very specific.
So, a mismatch can happen easily.
This problem is NOT the Customers fault, but is a Dealership issue of service.
IMHO?
Boatyarddog