Testing Compression

[Jetexas]

"Supposedly" the system is self-bleeding. It's definitely circulating fuel through the system and back into the tank because I can hear it running back in. However, I will ferociously bleed at both the filter and injectors just to make sure this weekend.

[Chief Engineer]

Not prudent

Originally Posted by doug86

Try a squirt of WD-40 into the air intake while you crank. It will work like starter fluid, but won't damage the motor. If the motor tries to start on WD-40, then I suspect you aren't getting fuel to the injectors.


Doug

[Sailmonkey]

I'll be around this weekend if you'd like a second pair of eyes to look at it.

[um saudade]

Next time try doing a project such as this in the correct order: Check for compression and bearings first. If it has both THEN work on the outside. There is a good chance this will not ever get up enough compression to start and if it does may not have enough compression to produce any HP.
Did you look at valves? Could be sticky or even stuck valves but have to be both. It cranks fast because you have no compression for the starter to torque against.
500 psi is a fair figure for diesel compression. It may start at less if the glow plugs add some heat but will never put out any HP and burn blue.
Pull the head off and look inside is the best bet. If the cylinder walls are junk then you are looking at a major over haul. I am not sure if the Westerbeke has sleeves or not….
Um Saudade

[Jetexas]

I spent today trying the transmission fluid suggestion. We went from cranking like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luvk-S6tKTA

To cranking like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zkErXoKtv0

It's definitely developing some compression now, but still no luck actually starting.

I'm not sure I fully understand how to bleed the injectors. If I loosen the nuts on top of the banjo fitting fuel line that goes around the injectors, I get some diesel seeping out. However, if I open the fittings on the end of the injectors, there's nothing. Should fuel be flowing up through those lines or is that only for when the injectors fire? I pumped and pumped the primer ball, but I never could get any fuel into those lines.

[Jetexas]

Um Saudade, I agree, we should have checked that stuff first. We began this project under the assumption that this thing just needed an oil change, and it would be running. We didn't realize it was in this bad of condition.

[Chief Engineer]

Follow the fuel line from the injection pump to the injector.

With the nut cracked open 1/2-1 turn, put the engine at full throttle and have someone crank the engine over.....fuel should spurt out.....

It will be either air in the line or the stop lever is pulled out...or worst case...you have an injector pump problem...the primer bail willonly get fuel to the injection pump not to the injectors.

and from the video...the engine cranking too slowly...it needs to be "fast" in order to build up the heat to light off the fuel/air mix.

[sigmasailor]

I agree with Chief. The engine turns over too slow; the battery looks dead or empty to me. I would also allow it to crank it longer (this will warm up the cylinders). Find a nice full and big battery and try again. You can hear its building up compression.

Can you hand start the engine instead: it should have a decompression lever to do this. Before doing this make sure the fule lines are bled properly.

As for those other lines you're trying to bleed (from the top of the injectors); those are return lines and do not have to be bled.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

I spent today trying the transmission fluid suggestion. We went from cranking like this:

To cranking like this:

It's definitely developing some compression now, but still no luck actually starting.

I'm not sure I fully understand how to bleed the injectors. If I loosen the nuts on top of the banjo fitting fuel line that goes around the injectors, I get some diesel seeping out. However, if I open the fittings on the end of the injectors, there's nothing. Should fuel be flowing up through those lines or is that only for when the injectors fire? I pumped and pumped the primer ball, but I never could get any fuel into those lines.

Originally Posted by never monday

it's dead

stop while you are ahead and put a set of rings in it

[Jetexas]

I left the charger on the battery last night. I'm headed back down on Sunday to bleed the injectors as instructed and try again.

There's no hand starting instructions in my Westerbeke manual nor can I find anything about a decompression lever.

If we can't get it running tomorrow I'll have a mechanic come out and diagnose it next weekend, so we can decide if it's worth saving. Just a new set of rings is over $300 per cylinder. If it also needs new injectors or an injector pump, etc. I think we're better off just looking for something rebuilt or used versus dumping money into this.

Chief, we can't run the injectors out of the block to test them because of the metal lines. They don't flex enough to pull something like that off.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

I left the charger on the battery last night. I'm headed back down on Sunday to bleed the injectors as instructed and try again.

There's no hand starting instructions in my Westerbeke manual nor can I find anything about a decompression lever.

If we can't get it running tomorrow I'll have a mechanic come out and diagnose it next weekend, so we can decide if it's worth saving. Just a new set of rings is over $300 per cylinder. If it also needs new injectors or an injector pump, etc. I think we're better off just looking for something rebuilt or used versus dumping money into this.

Chief, we can't run the injectors out of the block to test them because of the metal lines. They don't flex enough to pull something like that off.

you can run the injectors out of the block.
pull them out, turn them 90* and remount to the lines.
I think you will be farther ahead fixing what you have than buying used.

[Chief Engineer]

I am not saying to pull the injectors....just crack the nuts that are on the fuel supply line to see if you are getting fuel to the injectors......or do what NM says and see if you are indeed getting atomised fuel. BTW with the injectors out the engine will spin much faster.

Buy a battery

[hellosailor]

Something often overlooked when an engine is hard to start: Don't overheat the starter. The typical duty cycle is about 15 seconds every 15-20 minutes, if you crank them too long they overheat, the coils expand, and then they scrape themselves apart and a year or two down the line, the starter fails totally. Starter motors are designed for high power in very short bursts, they'd be way more expensive and bulkier if they were built for longer run times.

[Artful Dodger]

In listening to your video on cranking there seems to have come the point that you might now have an over fueled engine. Here is something to try, shut off the fuel system so it does not supply fuel, have a real good booster battery , then while the engine is turning over, with a spray bottle spray transmission fluid in the intake, have used this when engines have been over fueled. This should create enough heat in the engine cylinders so once the transmission fluid is injected is should do something. Now to answer your question about transmission fluid this is also a fluid used to fill new fuel filters. The reason why is that it will clean the engine lubricate it and help with the orifices in the injectors.

There was once when I was working on a similar problem with a small diesel engine, that once I was taking it a part I noticed that the diesel oil really didn't smell right it turned out he had used fish oil base diesel fuel, which turned out to be the problem, I doubt that this is the problem here but thought should mention it.

[Sailmonkey]

unless something is really wrong that engine will run. You may need a new battery, but maybe not........I will be on my boat sunday all day, knock on the hull and i'll show you how to bleed the injectors.
I'm less expensive than hiring a mechanic to look at the engine (free up to a beer).