The case of the intermittent water cooling system

[Terra Nova]

How about some photos?

Without a hatch in the cockpit sole, the halyard won't do you much good, to start. As light as the engine is, if you protect the companionway area with scrap plywood, blocking and padding, you should be able to manhandle the engine out from under the sole. Then you can use the halyard, boom, tackle to remove it. Run the halyard through a shackle attached to a line running aft, to keep the halyard from trying to swing back to the mast.

[brownoarsman]

Great idea on the line running aft. I'll need to rig up some other control lines too, but luckily will have help.
It sounds like sliding the engine forward, onto some wood blocks, until I can get a good purchase angle on it is the way to go.
Here is the monkey I have been carrying on my back!




Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[SkiprJohn]

The Perkins 4-108 in my Mariner required moving forward before lifting. Block and tackle and put some protective covering on all your nice trim. Slide the engine forward on scraps of wood and then you can haul it out with the main halyard or main sheet depending on where on the boom things are attached.

Good luck!

[DeepFrz]

If you can lift it enough to get some plywood under the mounts you should be able to slide it forward. Or even scraps of 2x6 or so.

[jldunn86]

Are you where you could get a hair pin lifting bar put together?
Basically a long C piece built to span the companion cockpit floor to center the lift effort and allow you to lift straight up then swing into the saloon, then up and out the available space.

[jimbunyard]

My approach would be to disconnect the engine at the stringers, leaving the engine mounts attached (as previously suggested). Get a 2ft x 3 or 4 ft piece of 3/4" plywood, lever up the front of the engine, stick the front edge of the narrow side of the plywood under the engine and mounts, manhandle it forward enough to attach the lifting apparatus to the engine, and then use a combination of upward (halyard) and forward (you) force to get it in position for the lift out.

Have all the lifting arrangements, attachments and blocking ready before you start to avoid any 'precarious' moments... four or five short pieces of 2x4 for blocking and a three of four foot piece for leverage might be handy.


If you can borrow a light chain fall and attach it to the boom for lifting, and attach the halyard to the boom at the same position to take the load, you will have much better control for maneuvering the engine.

[DeepFrz]

It will be a lot easier too if you remove the transmission separately.

[brownoarsman]

Thanks for the great thoughts! The plywood skid pads sound like the way to go until I can get a good angle on the eye bolts. If it doesn't work that way, I could build a jig inside the compartment to lift the engine a bit without drilling the cockpit sole, similar to the hairpin lifting bar idea. Thanks again and I'll update when I have it out in about a week!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[brownoarsman]

Took my parents for a short cruise of the Chesapeake bay, which was wonderful, even though in true Chesapeake style the wind was either on the nose or non-existent! But it's back to work now.
I have all the hoses and wires detached and labeled, plywood cut and railroad ties ready to take the engine, but I'm not sure how to get the transmission off (hurth transmission on universal 5411).
Any suggestions for this setup:
Attachment 108328
From left to right, it's prop shaft, shaft coupler, transmission, bell housing. The shaft is fed through a non-drip less stuffing box.
Generic transmission removal advice on the internet advocates undoing the set screws in the coupling, sliding the shaft back and/or sliding the engine forward. I'm fine with either/both of these approaches, but my issue is that I can't find a parts diagram that shows how the transmission is actually attached to the engine. Should I be removing the trans or the bell housing-any watch outs that could result in breakage? Thanks!
Also, with the wires detached from the engine, I no longer have any electricity. To keep the bilge pump auto working, should I just wrap a coil of wire around the prop shaft and connect it to the bat neg cables? I assume this is what the engine was doing, but I need to trace the wire schematics.
New peripheral issue is that the rockers and push rods now have a bit of light rust on them. I suppose I should have oiled these before putting them back on the engine in marathon.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[brownoarsman]

Sorry, pic didn't upload at first.

Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[DeepFrz]

Regarding the power. My guess is that the engine block served as the ground bus. Check out where the main ground from the batteries go. If I am right you should install a ground bus and connect up all your grounds to it.

[DeepFrz]

Re the rust. A light bit of rust wont hurt. Just spray everything with a light coat of oil until you get to taking everything apart.

Can't tell if that is a bolt head at corner of transmission where it joins the bell housing. If it is and there is one at each corner then that is what you want to undo to remove the transmission. Will probably be easier to just haul it out with the engine though.

[brownoarsman]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

You should install a ground bus and connect up all your grounds to it.

Can always count on you! The battery grounds were connected to the block through the oil filter assembly. I had read that the engine block was used as a ground both because of its ability to take the high loads of the alternator and starter, as well as its direct connection to ground through the water. When installing the ground bus, should I still find a way to try to route this to water via the prop shaft, or just leave it floating? I assume all those outboard powered boats have floating grounds, so I guess that is fine?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

From left to right, it's prop shaft, shaft coupler, transmission, bell housing. The shaft is fed through a non-drip less stuffing box.
Generic transmission removal advice on the internet advocates undoing the set screws in the coupling, sliding the shaft back and/or sliding the engine forward. I'm fine with either/both of these approaches, but my issue is that I can't find a parts diagram that shows how the transmission is actually attached to the engine. Should I be removing the trans or the bell housing-any watch outs that could result in breakage? Thanks!
Also, with the wires detached from the engine, I no longer have any electricity. To keep the bilge pump auto working, should I just wrap a coil of wire around the prop shaft and connect it to the bat neg cables? I assume this is what the engine was doing, but I need to trace the wire schematics.
New peripheral issue is that the rockers and push rods now have a bit of light rust on them. I suppose I should have oiled these before putting them back on the engine in marathon.




Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

There's a parts manual here:

http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/En...5411_PARTS.pdf

that shows the attachment of the transmission at section 26b. The transmission is attached from inside the bell housing (brilliant!) so you have either to take the bell housing off (8 bolts) or leave the transmission on.

If it were me, I'd probably try and take it out with the transmission attached, because the bell housing has the rear engine mounts on it. If you have a fairly flat surface as the bottom of the engine, you may be able to take the B/H off and just slide the engine out on the oil pan.

Usually one would separate the prop shaft at the coupling between the output flange on the transmission and the propshaft coupling, usually 3 or 4 bolts. If you separate the bell housing from the block, you don't strictly need to touch the transmission and propshaft, but I bet it'd be a bear to put back in that way.

A little surface rust probably matters not at all, but could be an issue if it's on load bearing surfaces. Put some oil or something on them now, better late than never.

[brownoarsman]

The rockers are oiled, the grounds are bussed and floating (I realised I'm not going to have the high loads of a starter or an alternator since I'm not going to have an engine, duh), the bilge pump works, and the prop shaft has a hose clamp on it as a lock. Sadly the sun is down and my light is gone, but I'll study the diagram tonight (thanks for the link) and should be ready to lift this thing out tomorrow!
One last q: the scissor jacks I was planning to use won't fit in the oil pan, much less anywhere close to the mounting assembly (the jack is in the lower left corner):

I can probably use a lever between the stringer and the mount on the other side, unless there's a specialized jack I can fit in there? I think it would have to be a little box with maybe a worm gear driving a lift. Anyone heard of these?
Given the age and condition of the engine, I very much do not want to apply force to the oil pan Thanks for all the fast help!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum