The saga of my beneteau 49

[Princessoftides]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

While I think things like shutting the intake valve probably fix the problem as far as protecting the engine, it isn't the real answer.

I don't know the answer but bet it is going to turn out to be something small, or a comboination of a couple of small things.

I hope you get it properly fixed for yourself. But I also hope that when you do that that you rememeber to post the answer for others afterwards.

It has always seemed to me that a lot of problems on the forum never get updated by the OP when the problem gets solved.

I sure will post the results of the various solutions I am going to try once I am back to the boat.
All the advices I received have been extremely useful as they allow me to look at the issue from many different angles which is not always the case when you are on your own and have little experience in boats.
My plans are first to inspect the position of the water strainer under the boat, and then to sail with the intake seacock closed and opening it just before starting the engine. If the engine is difficult to start, I will close the seacock again to prevent excess water to get into the engine until it start.
If I see that I do not have any more problem when I sail with the seacock closed , it indicates that the problem was coming from the cooling water.
In this case I will remove the syphon valve and run a tube from the top of the intake loop to the discharge hose from the kitchen zinc ( quite close from the engine) and see if this resolve the issue.
When all of this is done , it will be time to store the boat for the hurricane season....

[mrm]

Originally Posted by Princessoftides

In this case I will remove the syphon valve and run a tube from the top of the intake loop to the discharge hose from the kitchen zinc ( quite close from the engine) and see if this resolve the issue.
When all of this is done , it will be time to store the boat for the hurricane season....

I assume you meant kitchen sink?

The solution you propose will get rid of excess water when engine is stationary (assuming it is the water pressure from reversed intake we are dealing with here) but it will mostly likely introduce a problem of its own when engine is running - underpressure created by raw water pump on its suction side will likely pull air via the sink inlet into the raw water circuit. This is not good for cooling and not good for impeller. One could think of adding a one way check valve to the picture, but this is just another place for possible failure.

Since you plan to store the boat for hurricane season (and again assuming it is the reversed intake strainer) the proper solution is to have the intake strainer installed in the correct way. Not very difficult to do when boat is on the hard.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by mrm

I assume you meant kitchen sink?

The solution you propose will get rid of excess water when engine is stationary (assuming it is the water pressure from reversed intake we are dealing with here) but it will mostly likely introduce a problem of its own when engine is running - underpressure created by raw water pump on its suction side will likely pull air via the sink inlet into the raw water circuit. This is not good for cooling and not good for impeller. One could think of adding a one way check valve to the picture, but this is just another place for possible failure.

Since you plan to store the boat for hurricane season (and again assuming it is the reversed intake strainer) the proper solution is to have the intake strainer installed in the correct way. Not very difficult to do when boat is on the hard.

On most all Beneteau's, the raw water anti-siphon valve is between the discharge side of the raw water pump and the heat exchanger and well above the water line at all times. If the anti-siphon value were obstructed, it would not function or vent the loop at all. Vetus makes several types of anti-siphon valves, some with an internal valve (e.g. the Airvent V) and some without. Those without are equiped with a 1/8" (4mm) vent hose that is intended to be connected to a drain or through hull that is always above the water line when the engine is not running. If an unvalved loop is connected to a point that is below the water-line when the engine is shut down, it's anti-siphon function is defeated. For that reason, I would not connect it to a sink drain or, frankly, anywhere other than a through hull on the transom where one is certain it will virtually always be above the water-line. The "valved" units require periodic maintenance to remove/dissolve salt crystals and accumulated sediments.

FWIW the OP might want to place a call to Ward Richardson or Todd in the Parts Department at Beneteau USA. Both are very knowledgable and could likely help solve the problem in short order. If so, the long distance phone call, if it is so, would be worth it.

[Princessoftides]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

On most all Beneteau's, the raw water anti-siphon valve is between the discharge side of the raw water pump and the heat exchanger and well above the water line at all times. If the anti-siphon value were obstructed, it would not function or vent the loop at all. Vetus makes several types of anti-siphon valves, some with an internal valve (e.g. the Airvent V) and some without. Those without are equiped with a 1/8" (4mm) vent hose that is intended to be connected to a drain or through hull that is always above the water line when the engine is not running. If an unvalved loop is connected to a point that is below the water-line when the engine is shut down, it's anti-siphon function is defeated. For that reason, I would not connect it to a sink drain or, frankly, anywhere other than a through hull on the transom where one is certain it will virtually always be above the water-line. The "valved" units require periodic maintenance to remove/dissolve salt crystals and accumulated sediments.

FWIW the OP might want to place a call to Ward Richardson or Todd in the Parts Department at Beneteau USA. Both are very knowledgable and could likely help solve the problem in short order. If so, the long distance phone call, if it is so, would be worth it.

The sink drain is well above the water line.
I was waiting for my Beneteau dealer in huntington to put me in contact with those guys, but will do so myself in a short while. Thank you for the advice!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Princessoftides

The sink drain is well above the water line.
I was waiting for my Beneteau dealer in huntington to put me in contact with those guys, but will do so myself in a short while. Thank you for the advice!

Frankly, I wouldn't wait on a dealer for anything. Once you're out the door...

You can reach Ward or Todd at 01-843-629-5300. Advise the operator you are calling long distance so that she can notify Ward ot Todd to take your call right away. FWIW, I have always found the people at Beneteau very responsive as Madam Rioux is very insistant on good customer service at all costs.

FWIW...

[Princessoftides]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Frankly, I wouldn't wait on a dealer for anything. Once you're out the door...

You can reach Ward or Todd at 01-843-629-5300. Advise the operator you are calling long distance so that she can notify Ward ot Todd to take your call right away. FWIW, I have always found the people at Beneteau very responsive as Madam Rioux is very insistant on good customer service at all costs.

FWIW...

Many thanks for the information, you may be right, dealers do not remember your name once you have signed the cheque...

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Princessoftides

Many thanks for the information, you may be right, dealers do not remember your name once you have signed the cheque...

There are many unresponsive dealers but I must say St. Barts in Charleston are the best Beneteau dealers going. I have called them years after buying the boat and their service manager is always very helpful (and knowledgeable).

[MJBrown]

Not sure how she can get sea water into the engine oil via the raw water pump unless there's a break in the heat exchanger. Since she's had mutliple engines that seems somewhat unlikely. I'm curious about how many hours were on the engine when the problem started. Were there any problems or other issues prior to it occurring? I know a couple of other people that have 49s and 50s (the same hull and engine) and have not heard of any issues like this. The 49's exhaust port sits well out of the water but it does seem to be the most logical cause. Over cranking the engine is a know problem and noted in the engine manual. Just not sure how it can happen so am curious to hear the results. BTW I know her dealer and they're good people and would expect they'll support her.
Mike

[motion30]

I installed a gen set and put a brass check valve in the exhaust system, never cause a problem in 4 years

[Princessoftides]

Originally Posted by motion30

I installed a gen set and put a brass check valve in the exhaust system, never cause a problem in 4 years

This is interesting. CAn you give me the name of a manufacturer. Does this fit any exhaust hose?
Thank you.

[motion30]

I just bought one from the plumming store Just pick one the size of your exhaust hose and buy the corrrect size barrbed fittings

[KateReeves]

Keep persevering with Beneteau. We have a 2011 Beneteau Ocenais 50 Family and have had no end of problems with it, although the engine has always been fine (touch wood). We are constantly having to speak to the MD of Ancasta (the UK sales agent) and with a lot of perseverance and angry phone calls we get there eventually.

I hope you work it out.

Kate

[Princessoftides]

That's what I am doing, but I am getting nowhere with Beneteau in the US, as I need to go through my dealer.
The most help I got was from this forum....

[Princessoftides]

Hello to all of those who gave me some very useful advices.

After 6 weeks of sailing in the Caribeans, and trying a few solutions to prevent the water to get into the engine, I found out that the problem was caused by the position of the raw water vented loop, which was off center to part and far too low.
I found out, by replacing the raw water rubber hoses with transparent hoses that after the engine is stopped and the boat heals to port, that the water coming from the engine climbed all the way to the anti-syphon break, and was going to the mixing elbow to evidently get afterwards in the engine.
this was due to the fact that the vented loop was installed on the left side of the engine rather than in the center of the boat , and was far too low, allowing the water to syphon back into the mixing elbow.
I moved therefore the vented loop all the way into the rear cabin of the boat way above the water line, and made sure that the anti-syphon break was installed correctly.
After testing this setup, I found that when I stop the engine (under sail with the boat healing), the water does not reach the vented loop any more, and goes back into the water muffler as it should.
As an additional precaution, I am now sailing with the seacock closed (and the engine key removed from the control panel), and had no more problems.
I would like to thanks all of the sailors who took the time to give me some advises, this significantly improved my understanding of the problem, and allowed me to find a solution with the help of a great mechanics in Martinique.
I wish everybody a great sailing season!

[nigel1]

Nice to know, and a relatively easy fix.