To TREAT or NOT To TREAT

[seafox]

We try to grow as much algae in our diesel tank as possible. Every three months we harvest it to use in our salads. It goes great with tomatoes and some grated cheese.

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

Oh yeah. Doesn't matter what the material is. The growth and I have used the term growth, because the little greeblies that grow can be Algae and/or Bacteria. These greeblies are the same as found down at great depths of ocean in the dark and underground in the dark and so on. It's not your everyday common garden variety of greeblies. These ones are happy in the dark. The algae that grows in your waterlines are however light requiring fellows..plants...or whatever the heck they are. So if you have clear plastic water lines, ensure they are kept in the dark, which stops the insides going green.

[Pete the Cat]

I use PridD primarily as a lubricity enhancer and can tell the difference with the noise the engine makes. Used to use ValvTect, but had a major injector pump failure (may or may not be related) during that time and the rebuilder wanted to know what I did to dissolve the o rings on it so completely. I will not buy anything that promises to "dissolve" water--I don't want to put that through the injector pump or injectors, that is what your filter is for.

I used to berth next to a college professor and his PhD wife who was a microbiologist. They were interested in "bios" in diesel and took samples from their tanks over quite a period and never found anything. They told me that all they found (the little black dots of stuff) was actually tar.

[Alan Wheeler]

It goes great with tomatoes and some grated cheese.

Arrr, so that's the secret ingrediant.

lubricity enhancer and can tell the difference with the noise the engine makes.

Unless you guy's have some really crap fuel in the states, you shouldn't need an additive to enhance lubrication. Most of that in additives is fallicy anyway. If you can hear a difference in theengine, it won't be lubrication. It is most likly altering the burn rate (cetane rating) of the fuel. If it seems smoother and quiter, then the ignition is being slowed down. This is reducing "injector shock".
O'ring problems maybe caused by additives, or it may also be caused by the removal of sulfur. The process that removes Sulfur, also removes many of the Aromatics. The aromatics is what keeps seals soft and pliable. With the Aromatics gone, the seals shrink and turn hard and brittle. This has been a major issue with all countries that have gone to no Sulfur content in Diesel. The removal of Sulfur has so far not shown any signs of increased wear in any components other than seal issues.

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

I will not buy anything that promises to "dissolve" water--I don't want to put that through the injector pump or injectors, that is what your filter is for.

Certainly use filters with water traps too but one way or another water should be kept out of the fuel tank in the first place. It is at the fuel/water interface in the tank where it is most favourable for the growth of bacteria and algae. For some of us who store our fuel in low CofG tanks for stability reasons (in our case in the fin keel) it may not be easy to remove all water in any way other then the use of a dispersant (assuming they work ), the alternative being to lift the boat, remove the fairing and coatings over the drain and making that all good again after.

I have not heard of water dispersants damaging engines but there again I don't know if they disperse water either .

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

I use PridD primarily as a lubricity enhancer and can tell the difference with the noise the engine makes. Used to use ValvTect, but had a major injector pump failure (may or may not be related) during that time and the rebuilder wanted to know what I did to dissolve the o rings on it so completely. I will not buy anything that promises to "dissolve" water--I don't want to put that through the injector pump or injectors, that is what your filter is for.

I used to berth next to a college professor and his PhD wife who was a microbiologist. They were interested in "bios" in diesel and took samples from their tanks over quite a period and never found anything. They told me that all they found (the little black dots of stuff) was actually tar.

Check out my first post on this thread (first page, fourth post) as to the problems I had with the Valv Tect product. I tell ya...you have to be a scientist now a days to stay on top of everthing!

[Alan Wheeler]

The issue with water is in the damage of the injector tip. There are several factors that create the damage.
Firstly, the fact that water expands rapidly and immeansly upon heating to such a high temperature. This "explosion of steam" can cause damage to the very fine injector tip.
Secondly, it has minerals and other contaminants suspended in it. This creates a residue on the tip that is both corrosive and abrasive, not to mention blockes the tip. And the blockage is residue that does not dissolve with cleaner additives like gums/tars do. And lastly, the water also aids corrsion.
Additives do not disperse water. The ones that are supposed to treat water, do so by supposedly turning the water into something that can burn harmlessly. Kinda like the idea of meths being poured into a petrol tank. Personaly I think we have a better chance of turning Straw into Gold than turning water into a safe (to the injector) burnable fuel.

[MidLandOne]

Yes, the only hope I have for a water dispersant is that it prevents the moisture in the hygroscopic fresh diesel put into the tank settling out. Wanting to do that is driven by the difficulty, in our case, of draining the tank. That water in the fresh diesel will go through the system whether one uses a dispersant or filters with water traps (which will basically only take out "globules" of water sucked or stirred up from the bottom of the tank or water that has frozen) and isn't sufficient to damage anything. It is, after all, how it has come from the pump ready to be burnt in an engine.

Whether dispersants work or not I don't know but I would be most surprised if they (in the small volumes typical of additives) were able to make any significant difference to the volume of any water already in the bottom of a tank by "dispersing" that into the fuel. But I haven't seen such a claim made - although that doesn't mean such claims have not been made . Chemtech only claims to disperse moisture already in the fuel.

Chemtech Diesel Power is only added in the ratio 1:4,000 so I find it hard to believe it does anything other than kill the bugs (if that ) but who knows. Certainly would not seem to me to be sufficient to improve lubricity (as they claim it does) or have any bad effect on components.

[Alan Wheeler]

Most of the "magic chemicals" that are added to these additive products to absorb, disperse, what ever the the claim, are no more than forms of alchohol. Like Methylated Spirits, Ethanol and so on. All readily bind with water and make it theoreticaly burnable. So if you want to save money, you can simply pour in a few mls or is it fluid ounces you US guy's use of meths or ethanol into your diesel tank, shake it all about and burn it up.

[MidLandOne]

The biocide and dispersant in Diesel Power is given as 2-Butoxyethanol which is actually a butyl ether (ethylene glycol monobutyl ether). Is quite a bit about it on the web and seems to have a wide variety of uses including as a pesticide, but also in cleaning products, thinners, etc. They seem to stack up with being a dispersant and biocide. As you say ethanol seems to be used by many products as the claimed "dispersant".

I think the only reservation I have about its dispersant and biocide properties is the low concentration at which Chemtech say to use it. If the concentration is too low then it is a scam (like some of the other additives definitely are). If it is a scam then I suspect that most, maybe all, of the other diesel biocides available to the general public are scams too.

[GordMay]

Biobor does not claim to be water dispersant, only a biocide* (fungicide):
“... Biobor® JF eliminates growth of harmful slime-producing fungi that clog filters and pipelines, attack rubber fuel system components and whose waste products aid in the corrosion of metal surfaces. ...”

From the BIOBOR MSDS
http://www.hammondscos.com/content/d...OR_JF_MSDS.PDF

COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
95.0 % Substituted dioxaborinanes See below*
4.5 % Naphtha CAS# 8030-30-6
Non-hazardous and other ingredients below reportable levels Balance
*2,2’ - (1-methyltrimethylenedioxy) bis - (4-methyl-1, 3, 2-dioxaborinane);
2,2’ - oxybis (4, 4, 6 - trimethyl-1, 3, 2-dioxaborinane) (CAS No.: 8063-89-6).

* Microbiocides kill microbes such as bacteria, viruses, and fungi, and are used in disinfectant or antibacterial products.

[Hud3]

Yanmar recommends using the FPPF products. http://www.fppf.com/searchbyTransportation.asp

I use FPPF "Killem" biocide everytime I put fuel in the tank. Here in the Caribbean, the provenance of diesel is usually questionable, at best. As others have stated, keeping water out of the tank in the first place helps suppress algae/bug growth. I made a dipstick out of a piece of 3/8" copper tubing and attached it to a fuel hose with squeeze bulb, the kind you can buy as a replacement for what came with your outboard motor fuel tank. I stick the copper tube down to the bottom of the tank and squeeze until some diesel flows up into a clear container. It's easy to see if you have water or other crud in the bottom of the tank. I don't use any water treatment products, and I've never had any water problems so far. I do have a Racor MA500 filter/water separator. I've heard that alcohol-based products can harm the engine, but that could be rumor.

I also use the "8+ Cetane Improver". Some fellow Island Packet owners with Yanmar engines who don't boost cetane report a black soot residue on the transom. I've never experienced that over about 1,700 hours of engine use.

[Elie]

Here Upstate New York and Vermont, the problem is the quality of the fuel being sold in marinas around Lake Champlain. It looks like #2 heating oil(reddish in color too.). After blocking my filters with a strange coal like fine black beads, I now use only truck stop diesel and I've never experienced this problem again. I use Delphi additive once a year as suggested by my injection shop specialist, mostly to lubricate and clean my injection pump and injector. No bug killer of any kind. I was told that strong magnets around the fuel feed line would kill any bug. Any one doing this?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Elie

... I was told that strong magnets around the fuel feed line would kill any bug. Any one doing this?

I expect some (many?) are - but believe they’ve all been woefully misled [unless the magnets are crystal-shaped ].

[Alan Wheeler]

No bug killer of any kind. I was told that strong magnets around the fuel feed line would kill any bug. Any one doing this?

This is one of the greatest snake oil myths of the 21st century. I can not believe that someone has not taken the companies that produce these magnetic filtering devices to court yet. What a crock.

[DaveyJones]

When it goes by the magnet and through the engine it's dead.

Arrgh, Dead bugs don't bite!

Actually the problem is they stop up your filters and then the engine stops, leaving you drifting down the Mississippi river at a good clip with ships and barges coming at you.

And, that's why I want to get me one of them there sailing boat.