Too Many Engine Hours?

[Roniszoro]

Looking at a boat for sale with a 24 year old Yanmar with 4500 hours? What is a reasonable life, in hours, for an engine? At what point, in engine hours, are they normally replaced?

[sailorboy1]

My 22 year old boat yanmar 4JH3 has 3700 hours

Means nothing by itself because I know how 3000 of them were run

[Roniszoro]

"Means nothing by itself because I know how 3000 of them were run" QUOTE

Can you kindly clarify or expand? I am not quite getting your input, which I appreciate.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Roniszoro

"Means nothing by itself because I know how 3000 of them were run" QUOTE

Can you kindly clarify or expand? I am not quite getting your input, which I appreciate.

I know the loading g was mostly 60-70% avoiding etc etc

If you worried get an engine survey. No here can tell:if the engine you are looking at is good or bad

[Stingo]

According to the gospel of a happy hour discussion I had in the BVI (the heart of the abused charter boat world), 6000 hours is a reasonable life expectancy for engines and generators. Longer if the boat didn't have a history of charter abuse.

[Roniszoro]

Thank you for your input Sailorboy1. I am asking in relation to hours in general. For example, I would not care how well an auto engine was cared for, if the car had 135,000 miles on it, I'd likely not purchase.



I would certainly get an engine survey, what I'm wondering is if 4500 hours is approaching the point when folks start thinking of replacing the engine?

[more]

Originally Posted by Roniszoro

Looking at a boat for sale with a 24 year old Yanmar with 4500 hours? What is a reasonable life, in hours, for an engine? At what point, in engine hours, are they normally replaced?

to general rebulid
12000-18000 hours

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Roniszoro

Thank you for your input Sailorboy1. I am asking in relation to hours in general. For example, I would not care how well an auto engine was cared for, if the car had 135,000 miles on it, I'd likely not purchase.

Meanwhile my 2006 SUV has 262,000 miles and running great

[Roniszoro]

I'll bet your SUV runs great, but I'm guessing you won't get much for it when you want to sell it given its mileage.



The issue with regard to a boat with 4500 hours for me is that I'll likely be selling the boat in 3-4 years, and I'd like to think there would be a market for her with say 5000+ hours on the engine. Hence my questions.

[NSboatman]

A well maintained marine diesel (like your yanmar, IF it has been well maintained) should go well above 10,000 hours of life. But I’ve also seen them junked at 2500 hours.

A marine diesel’s life is really determined by 3 things, and 2 of them are connected:

1: quality of initial specification, build and installation.

2. Operation profile (ie was it broken in properly, was it allowed to reach operating temp every time it ran, did it get slammed in and out of gear, did it spend most of its life in the optimal power band, etc); and

3. Maintenance. Did the oil and filters get changed regularly, was coolant flushed and changed, were any leaks or sounds attended to, were valves adjusted at right intervals, etc.

1 is a designer/builder thing; and 2 and 3 are an owners responsibility.

Can you ascertain any of the details around any of these 3 points on this engine?

[mvweebles]

>4500-5000 hours does indeed start to spook some buyers. But many diesels can easily run >10k hours between major overhauls. Diesels in oilfield Generators routinely run a couple years, more or less non-stop.

Diesels in recreational boats seldom die of high hours. 99% are killed by a preventable failure such as a rusted exhaust manifold drowning the engine.

But perception is reality. Buyers - especially novice buyers - will avoid a boat with even modestly high engine hours or demand a reduction for future replacement. You can do so now and just know you'll pay it forward at resale.

[sailingharry]

Buyers are generally clueless with regard to engine life. As a result, they tend to significantly discount engines with 4000 or more hours. This is based on ignorance and internet fear mongering, not based at all on reality or fact. Except of course "Perception IS reality."

My 25 year old engine has 4500 hours on it. It starts easily every time, purrs like a kitten, and is indistinguishable from a brand new one. I fully expected to go that far again.

I would be far more worried about scratches and mars in the hull -- a paint job costs more than an engine. Or original sails -- a full set of sails will cost more than an engine. But somehow, the internet has made a 4000 hour engine a far bigger concern than almost anything else on a boat.

Question does come to how much to discount the boat for the engine. Remember that almost every other comparable boat will have comparable hours. And the prices of those boats were the basis for setting the price on this boat. In reality, the adjustment for engine hours is already in the price. And explains a lot of why a 20 year old boat sells for a lot less than a 15-year-old boat -- people look at a 4000 hour engine and decide to buy a newer boat.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Roniszoro

I'll bet your SUV runs great, but I'm guessing you won't get much for it when you want to sell it given its mileage.



The issue with regard to a boat with 4500 hours for me is that I'll likely be selling the boat in 3-4 years, and I'd like to think there would be a market for her with say 5000+ hours on the engine. Hence my questions.

You think your used boat isn't going to depreciate

That's so cute

It your engine goes backwards back to 4000 hours when you go to sell the buyer will ask same question of it you are

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Ronizoro,

Possibly the most important single thing is changing the oil when it is supposed to be done, even to doing it early, if the time will be up during usage. And, as SB1 pointed out, no one can tell you that.

What you can do is have an analysis done on the oil, now, and that will give you some data.

However, it is an ineffective analogy to draw comparison with car engine miles. My old BMW was sold with about 260,000 mi on it. At that time, the valve guides were worn, and I would have wanted to to a top end rebuild, and perhaps the bottom end as well. It could have used some re-upholstering due to UV damage in the back seat. I would not have expected to sell it for much money because it was also over 20 yrs. old.

For boats, they depreciate as cars do, and the analogy sort of stops there, because if they are maintained well, they can be in good condition (just as if I hadn't deferred maintenance, my old car would have commanded more money). For boats, if it is cosmetically good, and the rig, engine, and sails are also good, it will be more expensive than others of its age.

However, the essential truth is that boats are generally not growth assets, but belong in the debit column, because they require expensive upkeep, berthing, insurance, etc.. Say you buy a boat, in excellent overall condition, you may save a year or three without needing more than oil changes and possibly replacing a sail or two or a few lines, eventually, you will have to pour money into it or defer maintenance, and that will be very expensive, unless you have or acquire the skills and tools to do it yourself. Planning to hire all work done is not only expensive, but often work is not completed on time, nor to your satisfaction, and both those two latter facts of life wind up stealing your precious time. If your expectation is otherwise, you will be facing an uncomfortable awakening.

Ann, very long term cruiser

[SailingHarmonie]

My first large sailboat came to me with a Westerbeke 4-154, built out form a BMC block. 10,000 hours when I sold the boat, still going. 8 years later.

My current boat has a Volvo TMD22 with 8800 hours, still runs every day when asked to. No plans to replace it, we put about 500 hours a year on it without a problem.

A kubota powered generator was retired at 9100 hours because we could no long get spare parts, but it worked just fine.

I would consider any diesel engine that died at 4500 hours to be a victim of infanticide. Now to be fair, there are an awful lot of sailboat owners guilty of that crime.