Universal 5424 with Hurth Transmission problem

[oldcal46skipper]

Good info from a lot of knowledgeable boaters.

Obi Wan, I live in Pensacola and have been working on boat engines and gearboxes since completing trade school over 40 years ago. I had to separate your combo several times. Usually the gear input shaft splines are rusted into the flex plate which is bolted to the engine's flywheel. I drill and/or cut a hole in the bell housing in a place that will allow me to get a wrench in and loosen the flex plate bolts. This can be difficult, so call me and come down to Bayou Chico and I will show you how I do it - no charge. I have several in my shop waiting my next trip to the salvage yard.

I do NOT rebuild Hurth, ZF or Kanzaki gears as parts are expensive and ____!
I sell my customers a new one if a Borg Warner will not fit. I do rebuild Borg Warners and have several with various redux available.

"Dr. Diesel" says, about Hurths, ZFs (downeast accent) "Them's a dollar an hour gear. They cost about $1,500 and they last about 1,500 hours"

If you must use one, use synthetic ATF and change each 100 hours.

PM for my phone #

Tom

[Obi Wan]

I decided im just going to pull the engine - too much other stuff im finding wrong.

[Obi Wan]

I just don't get these boats. It's like they were designed to never be worked on. Heres an example. The engine mount is bolted to the fiberglass bed. It was obviously bolted to the bed before it was fiberglassed to the hull. There is no way to get to the bolt head and it spins freely. These mounts are sold as complete units. Incredible!

[MarkSF]

I've read the whole thread and it seems strange that no-one has suggested the most obvious option : get a quality rebuilt Hurth transmission.

1500 hours? My original Hurth lasted 3,500 and only died when the previous owner wrapped a sheet around the prop. It was replaced with a rebuild about 400 hours ago. We'll see if I get another 3,100. I'll probably be long gone by then, anyway.

I'd suggest getting a factory-rebuilt Hurth replacement. Don't send yours for reconditioning, as it'll likely cost more than a warranteed replacement, and you'll be subject to delays.

Dr Diesel? Is that the chap with so many satisfied customers on this forum? (sarcasm)

[topmast]

That turning bolt head maybe is in punky wood inside the shiny fibreglass Maybe other can'o worms . Look up in the manual' Replace engine beds'. Sometimes a full length ss angle iron or plate can be lagged down and drilled /taped for new mounts but thats for another thread, eh? More on topic, I liked my Hurth 630. Saving a few bucks on an under sized gear box ??

[Obi Wan]

Nope - just an idiotic design. Im going to have to cut away the fiberglass flange to access the bolt head. Unfortunately that will weaken the bed but no choice. I'll put a wedge under it afterwards.I have everything disconnected to lift the engine but this one bolt.

[oldcal46skipper]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

I've read the whole thread and it seems strange that no-one has suggested the most obvious option : get a quality rebuilt Hurth transmission.

1500 hours? My original Hurth lasted 3,500 and only died when the previous owner wrapped a sheet around the prop. It was replaced with a rebuild about 400 hours ago. We'll see if I get another 3,100. I'll probably be long gone by then, anyway.

I'd suggest getting a factory-rebuilt Hurth replacement. Don't send yours for reconditioning, as it'll likely cost more than a warranteed replacement, and you'll be subject to delays.

Dr Diesel? Is that the chap with so many satisfied customers on this forum? (sarcasm)

Hi Mark,

Apparently you practice proper maintenance. Way to go!

The Dr. Diesel I quoted is from Foley Engines in Maine.

Check out their website.

Tom, who sailed under the Golden Gate bridge in July 1967 aboard a 28' Columbia.

[topmast]

How about cut the bolt off at the nut with zip blade on angle grinder. Replace with new bolt with welded on the head cross bar of 3/8? maybe3" long to prevent turning while out of sight?

[Obi Wan]

I already cut the flange with just a drill bit. Only took a few minutes and then the bolt was easy to get the wrench on and replace the mount. Ready to hoist the engine!

It will almost be worth it just to be able to clean out that engine bay!

[Obi Wan]

Well, that was fun. Once I get this to my garage, I'll take some pictures getting the tranny off and getting to the drive plate (for subsequent searches).

Can't wait to get that engine bay cleaned up!

Also, (again for posterity) I confirmed that the bolts holding the front engine mount were put in before the bed was placed in the bay. The rear bolt (luckily) was fiberglassed in place, and the resin flowed "down" (now up) into the hole between the bolt and the mount. I had a heck of a time breaking the mount free from the bolt. I disconnected the engine block from the front mount, but the mount was in the way getting the engine to move forward and out, so I had to get that mount off.

Also, the main mounts are not too bad - how can you tell whether they should be replaced or should you just do that anyway?

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper

Hi Mark,
Apparently you practice proper maintenance. Way to go!

In fact I just changed the transmission fluid today. After only 18 months and 67 hours, it looked quite dirty - due for a change anyway. Wiping the dipstock on a tissue left a gray residue which I assume is either fine metal filings, or clutch material.

I am of the opinion that the fluid ought ideally to be changed on the same interval as the engine oil. There's such a small quantity (about 400 mls it took, this time), and it gets pretty hot.

[Obi Wan]

Here's what the inside of the bell housing and drive plate looks like (so nice to work on it in the comfort of my driveway). And yes, one spring is broken and they are a bit worn and it is a bit loose so definitely needs to be replaced.

Wish I had a picture like this when I started.

And for those who have never used a bolt extractor, they are a wonderfully useful tool.

[Obi Wan]

Originally Posted by patprice

I replaced my ZF10 because of numerous failures. But I believe heat was the issue as at the time I was in the tropics.
I fitted a PRM 120. It slipped straight in but was a tiny bit "longer", I forget the exact measurement, and the shaft offset (in to out) was 10 mm greater. I had to lift the engine 10 mm. Did it with shims.

Got a tip to go to ASAP in England for a replacement...they don't seem to have the ZF or a drop-in replacement, but offer a PRM-90 for $621, plus shipping. From the drawings, it appears to be 1 inch longer and 10mm drop-down (shaft offset). I guess I could raise the engine 10mm and shorten the shaft an inch - that's a huge savings (by one half) over anything else I've found so far.

Like your PRM? Anyone else with this experience?

[patprice]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan

Got a tip to go to ASAP in England for a replacement...they don't seem to have the ZF or a drop-in replacement, but offer a PRM-90 for $621, plus shipping. From the drawings, it appears to be 1 inch longer and 10mm drop-down (shaft offset). I guess I could raise the engine 10mm and shorten the shaft an inch - that's a huge savings (by one half) over anything else I've found so far.

Like your PRM? Anyone else with this experience?

Just to confirm...I am very pleased with my PRM box.

[Aloha_float]

How many hours were on this transmission before you started encountering the slip issue? I have a 1983 5424 that takes a bit to engage in forward but engages immediately in reverse. I am second owner and am told the engine has approximately 700 hours on it. It was a dock boat for the most part. I have the boat on the hard and am pulling the transmission in the next few weeks. I am hoping to find a cheaper remedy that replacement. Keats marine up here in Ontario repairs them. I have a Tartan 33 - approx 11,000 lbs displacement. What transmission are you considering for replacement if any? I have not seen the damper plate yet but do plan to replace all the springs while we have it apart.