Vegetable Oil

[Ukeluthier]

Originally Posted by Kevin84

Even using ethanol really doesn't impact food supplies. The US grows far more corn than it uses for food. And before the argument gets thrown out that the excess could be used for food aid, keep in mind that the human body cannot digest corn. Don't believe me, look at what's left in the toilet after eating corn.

As for the former statement... yes, that is true, but increasing the demand for corn by using it for fuel drives up the prices for those who need it for food.

As to the latter... nonsense. Sure, if you eat whole-kernel corn, the husks of the kernels survive the digestive tract relatively intact, but the rest of it gets digested. There are hundreds -- thousands, likely -- of food products made from perfectly digestible corn. It may not be the healthiest grain to eat too much of, but it certainly has nutritional value.

Ask a Native American what his ancestors survived on for hundreds of years.

[Paul Annapolis]

I dealt with this on two older diesel cars. First, most of the answers to any of this is online--in huge amounts and from many experienced sources as many diesel cars are running on veggie oil. Biodiesel is chemically altered vegetable oil that has the basic viscosity and properties of petroleum diesel. Vegetable oil--used or unused that has been cleaned and strained and filtered can be used in any diesel engine and should not cause any clogs. It may result in a loss of some efficiency because there are fewer BTU's per unit BUT...they key is using it at temperatures where it will not gel or clog (normally burning around 160-170 f). That's why some prefer the altered product or biodiesel. When used in warm weather only--you might be okay with straight veg oil..but this requires more study. Otherwise you will need to preheat the oil--and that is a whole lot of other discussion as to the hows and whats etc. For a small engine that gets little relative use (ie on most sailboats) don't bother. If on a twin engine powerboat--it can save a lot of money and with two tanks--one for diesel and one for vegie oil-you have already solved 99% of the preheat problem by having both sources.

[DefinitelyMe]

Since vegetable oil has higher viscosity than diesel does it cause problems in the filters? I should imagine it would put quite a bit of extra strain on the fuel pumps wouldn't it? Will it go through a 10-micron secondary filter ok? How about a 2-micron?

[Mark1977]

Pete Bethune went around the world on bio-fuel aboard the Ady Gil.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...62922401,d.b2I

[wsulli]

Originally Posted by Kevin84

Even using ethanol really doesn't impact food supplies. The US grows far more corn than it uses for food. And before the argument gets thrown out that the excess could be used for food aid, keep in mind that the human body cannot digest corn. Don't believe me, look at what's left in the toilet after eating corn.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Not true farmers can now make more money growing corn w/government programs than other food crops. This creates a short supply of these food items and higher prices along with higher taxes to pay for the programs. Typical of this Washington administration thinking, we loose all the way around.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

Pete Bethune went around the world on bio-fuel aboard the Ady Gil.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...62922401,d.b2I

Keep in mind, the Ady Gil was a motor vessel that ran her engines 24/7 while underway. Biodiesel would be great for that. However, not so well in a sailboat which may log 200-300 hours in a year.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[ozskipper]

According to Google you can go anything. I remember seeing a video some time back where the guys were using coffee filters to "clean" the oil.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by rw58ph

What do you think Bio diesel is? In the US on road diesel contain 5%. I been trying to stay away from it does not have a long storage life as it separate out and congeals in the tank and messes up the filters/injectors. I been running bio desiel in my pick up for years with no problems.

VO is NOT biodiesel.

Biodiesel is the product of converting WVO or VO to diesel through a chemical process called transesterification. It requires either an acid or a base to catalyze the process, along with methanol. The end product is biodiesel, with a by product of glycerin.

Mixing VO with diesel is just that, running on VO or a mix. The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, he didn't know they'd produce a petroleum version at the time. Diesels run great on clean VO or mix, with the added benefit of good lubricity for injection pumps and injectors. The problem is usually how to find enough clean WVO, since companies are buying WVO and VO is more expensive than diesel. Since the gov't has mandated ULSD here in the US, most diesel owners have resorted to fairly expensive diesel additives to get the needed lubricity. Adding VO is cheaper, and adds a few extra gallons of fuel to the tank.

The only problem with running VO is in cold climates, where it can thicken up and clog fuel lines since diesel fuel systems are generally suction. This is why you see a lot of cars with 2 tanks and a copper pipe wrapped around a coolant line to preheat the VO. They start the car on diesel, when it's up to temp, they switch over to VO which is now flowing fine due to the preheating, then they switch back to diesel for the last minutes to flush the lines with diesel and have it in there for the next cold start.

I knew a guy who drove a Ford 7.3L and he made his own biodiesel. I think he was doing something wrong, maybe not separating the glycerin out correctly or something, but the engine suffered a catastrophic failure and Ford denied his warranty, because he admitted he was running it on 100% home made biodiesel. Normally, people have no problems with biodiesel, but most don't run 100% bio because of a roughly 10% power loss vs regular diesel.

If I could find a good source of clean WVO, I'd love to run a 40 or 50% mix. When people first start using WVO, they usually report a clogged fuel filter because the WVO loosened up crud in the tank or fuel lines. After a tank or 2, the crud is all gone.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Ukeluthier

I'm with you on the folly of using corn for ethanol, but using used vegetable oil in diesels where possible makes eminently good sense to me.

Yes, VO in diesels makes great sense.

The folly of using corn for ethanol is using corn itself. The Brazilians have proven that sugarcane produces 8 times more ethanol per acre than corn. The US is stuck on corn mostly because of the powerful lobbyists.

Sugarcane grows great in some of the poorest regions in the world, and making ethanol from it is far more lucrative than making sugar.

[Steve Bean]

Don't try unheated vegetable oil if your engine is a direct injection model. Vegoil is thicker than diesel and won't atomize well, therefore won't burn well, then will stick on cylinder wall, gum up rings, ruin compression, turn to coke, scratch cylinder. In an indirect injection engine, fuel is injected into a pre-combustion chamber. This arrangement is much more tolerant of more viscous fuel. I've been using vegoil in a1980 Mercedes since 2004, many thousands of miles. Lots of info on Net.

[Dale Hedtke]

Originally Posted by rw58ph

What do you think Bio diesel is? In the US on road diesel contain 5%. I been trying to stay away from it does not have a long storage life as it separate out and congeals in the tank and messes up the filters/injectors. I been running bio desiel in my pick up for years with no problems.

Biodiesel is NOT unprocessed vegetable oil, but made from a either animal fat or vegetable oil. The feedstock strongly influences characteristics (cold flow, cloud point) of the finished product.

Biodiesel is generally safe in modern diesels, but you should be wary about using it in older systems. Here's why: biodiesel is a good solvent and can attack seals and will clean out gunk from your entire fuel system. Also, as mentioned in the quote, it can have storage problems if stored too long especially if it isn't made to spec. (glycerides not removed, etc.)

I also believe that there IS an impact on the food supply because of the use of corn, soya, canola, etc. for biofuels.

There is a lot of info on the 'net regarding conversion of vehicles to run on WVO (waste veg oil.) Typically they involve a dedicated tank for the oil, heating arrangements for the oil, both in the tank and fuel feed lines), and a switch over valving system. The idea is to start the engine on diesel, warm up the WVO, and then switch over to the WVO.

Your boat will smell something like french fries when running on WVO or biodiesel.

[Artful Dodger]

If one wishes to use vegetable oil but concerned about the injectors clogging and other issues, I would suggest just on a regular bases remove fuel filter drain it and fill with transmission fluid, this little action will help maintain keeping the injectors clean. If one questions this check out Ford motor companies recommendations when they change the fuel filters it states to refill with transmission oil on all cube vans.

[Neeltje]

I've seen several barges cruising the French canals use used cooking oil that they get from local restaurants to power their diesels, but when you look at the sheer size of the filtration system that's required to process it, you'll understand why only the larger barges do so.

Processing fresh or used vegetable oil on land for diesel use? Maybe, but I don't see it as being particularly adapted to the marine environment, especially if you don't like the smell of burnt calamari...

[azsailor12]

Not sure where you got the info on using transmission fluid to clean injectors, but it's a very bad idea. ATF has a very high ash content and this will leave deposits on injectors- the opposite of what you are trying to do.