Volvo D2-55C - considering options on what to do with it.

[Jim Jones]

Got some new photos yesterday.

[Jim Jones]

DougR (or anyone who might know),

Would it be possible to take all the marinized parts off the original D2-55C and put them on this engine ;

https://sklep.agromaj.com.pl/en/perk...04c-22-p10992#

https://industrialenginesusa.com/sho...for-sale?Valve

If so, one could have a brand new engine with all the marinized parts bolted to it and sail off into the sunset with a new engine. Advantages are you know all the parts are new and properly fitted and the cost would not be a massive amount above a rebuild (labour and machining time for rebore, skimming the engine block face that connects to the head, head machining etc).

Whether or not I need this I am not sure yet, but its good to have options.

[goboatingnow]

You have to be careful as Volvo often created slightly different variants over the stock Perkins engine.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You have to be careful as Volvo often created slightly different variants over the stock Perkins engine.

Yes I have seen this mentioned a few times.

I have also seen it said that the 400 series engines (which the D2-55 is - the D2-55C is the Perkins 404C-22 and the later D2-55 variants are the Perkins 404D-22) are not prone to this problem with Volvo. Not sure.

I am taking the position that I will probably have to do some major work to the engine. If it turns out I dont then that will be a bonus and free up money for other nice to haves (re-wire the boat/new electrical panel/ and new Czone type system installed - +LED's through out the boat?).

The thinking here about a new engine is that it would not be much more expensive then overhauling the old engine. The web site

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-404c-22/

looks to be the right place to get parts from. However its the labour that will be the killer. Although I might look for a diesel mech that works from home and takes on side jobs rather then use the mech in a marina. That would probably save a small fortune!

If the engine tests really good then I will just do the service work as previously mentioned and spend the money on the electrical system (inc an alternator addition - ie, a 2 alternator setup).

I will however be taking the engine out while the boat is in civilisation - I need to get into the engine bay and clean it up and replace every possible part I can - hoses, seacock, thru hulls (if any) clamps, upgrade to heavier wiring where it makes sense etc. I want to know every square inch of this boat, so need to get access to the engine bay/prop shaft area with nothing in there. The day will come when I will be glad I went to that trouble and know every bit back there as I will be on my own at that stage.

Then we can really examine the engine and decide how far we need to go. I am all for overdoing it rather then trying to cut corners - its either pay now upfront or pay later since it will need to be done one day. Rather push that day far far out in front of me then skimp now and have to do it in a remote place.

[skipperpete]

Well first you should take a close look at what’s happening where the mixer elbow is bolted to the heat exchanger in the latest photo’s of your engine, it looks like there’s a lot of corrosion on the interface. This was mentioned by Kerry1 in post #8.
The comparison between the engine in your first link and the engine in the boat show a few differences ( the valve cover air intake and the thermostat housing) that might make the component swap less easy than it seems and the engine in the second link has the turbo in a position that would prevent easy installation of the heat exchanger.
There is also the possibility that those industrial engines might have constant speed governors ( generator or skid steer engines) rather than the variable speed governors on small marine and automotive engines, they behave quite differently.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Well first you should take a close look at what’s happening where the mixer elbow is bolted to the heat exchanger in the latest photo’s of your engine, it looks like there’s a lot of corrosion on the interface. This was mentioned by Kerry1 in post #8.
The comparison between the engine in your first link and the engine in the boat show a few differences ( the valve cover air intake and the thermostat housing) that might make the component swap less easy than it seems and the engine in the second link has the turbo in a position that would prevent easy installation of the heat exchanger.
There is also the possibility that those industrial engines might have constant speed governors ( generator or skid steer engines) rather than the variable speed governors on small marine and automotive engines, they behave quite differently.

Hi Skipperpete,

Yes good points there. The plan will be to replace the elbow. I see the stainless steel ones on the parts for engines website. The thing about the stainless steel version of this elbow is how to stop corrosion since they are dissimilar metals (stainless and aluminium)

You are right about the engines in the links looking slightly different. Thats why swapping some parts over would be needed - eg the valve cover from the Volvo to the new engine. The rear bell housing would be a different setup for sure so that would be swapped over. Didnt notice the theromstat housing but will go take another look.

The engine with the turbo is not relevant here (unless you have a D2-75 since they are the same engine blocks - its just the addition of the turbo that makes it a 75HP - however as you probably know, its a lot more then JUST a turbo bolted to it - usually on a turbo engine the piston crowns are thicker, the conrods beefier etc but Perkins may not have made those mods to the D2-75 - I dont know).

The site listing the engine with the turbo is just using that pic as a reference to the 400 series engine line in general - they mention the 404C-22 as an available variant.

You may be right about the industrial engine being governed. I would think that can be overcome by changing over the injector pump from the Volvo?

The main benefit of the new engine is a new block, (so new original spec bores), new pistons, conrods, crank, oil pump, cam shaft/gears, new head/valves/valve guides etc. Of course a rebuild kit is available but a rebuilt engine is never as good as a new virgin engine from the factory.

The intent here is to build the engine up with a dual alternator system so that the engine can be run as a generator as well - there are solar panels with the boat and I am in the tropics so plenty of sun, but nothing beats big amps being pumped into the batteries from an ICE based system.

When researching the Beta engines I saw that they offer the "Beta Marine travel Power" which looked really good. Upon some googling and some hours of reading the general consensus was that these days a system with the wakespeed 500 regulator, a 24v 200amp alternator (dialled way back so as not to over heat the alternator and rob too much HP from the prop) and a Victron invertor with LiFePo4 batteries is every bit as good as the "Travel Power" if not more versatile.

Going off topic here but one of my considerations is that I have a dive compressor that runs from a 3Ph 2.3HP electric motor. It currently has a DOL starter and that means a big spike on start up. I need to dig deeper but it seems I could get a single phase VFD (hence fed from the Victron system - possibly 2 invertors linked together to give enough single phase power to be able to handle any surge even from the VFD) to supply a 3 Ph output to the electric motor. It may work because the 3Ph motor on the compressor is quite small and I have read that is about the only application such a setup works on (1Ph VFD to feed small 3Ph load) - which if it does would be ideal for my setup.

So how is the dive compressor relevant to all this? It needs electric power to run so I can fill dive bottles in the middle of nowhere (which is where I will be diving)

it means I need a dual alternator that is fairly beefy to charge the Lithium battery bank. That further means running the engine as a genset for a lot of hours. Hence wanting to make sure the engine is as solid as can be. It surely beats having to take a genset along as well. Money saved not buying a genset (and maintaining a genset) can be put towards setting up the 404C-22 as the genset system.

At least thats the theory

[skipperpete]

The very important point about the corrosion at the mixer elbow to exhaust manifold joint is not the dissimilar metals.... but rather the fact that salt water is corroding the exhaust manifold. There should NOT be exhaust water at that point in the system and that connection should be dry and slightly sooty on the inside, the corrosion is a symptom and not the primary issue.
It’s unusual to have 3phase power aboard a cruising yacht and I’ve not seen a 3 phase output boosted by an an additional phase, not saying it can’t be done, I’ve just never seen it. Synching two 3 phase supplies is tricky enough.
Changing the cassette injector pump won’t solve the theoretical Governor mis match, the governor is under the timing cover.
Pete.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

The very important point about the corrosion at the mixer elbow to exhaust manifold joint is not the dissimilar metals.... but rather the fact that salt water is corroding the exhaust manifold. There should NOT be exhaust water at that point in the system and that connection should be dry and slightly sooty on the inside, the corrosion is a symptom and not the primary issue.
It’s unusual to have 3phase power aboard a cruising yacht and I’ve not seen a 3 phase output boosted by an an additional phase, not saying it can’t be done, I’ve just never seen it. Synching two 3 phase supplies is tricky enough.
Changing the cassette injector pump won’t solve the theoretical Governor mis match, the governor is under the timing cover.
Pete.

skipperpete - good advice as ever from you. Thank you.

What can be done to minimize the corrosion when joining stainless to Alu?

The 3 Ph is only to drive the small electric motor on the compressor - it may or may not work out. I may have to resort to getting a compressor that runs on petrol (GAS).

The advances in VFD's in the last years have been amazing. A VFD takes in AC voltage and frequency puts it through a rectifier to convert it to DC and then gets filtered thru a capacitor bank and inductors then inverts it all back to AC. They can take a single Ph and invert it up to a 3Ph for 3Ph output. The catch is this only works well on small 3Ph loads. A huge advantage of the VFD approach is the soft start of any motor. The motor is slowly started - ie, voltage slowly ramped up to get the motor turning and thus avoids the huge start surge that is normal for a motor.

If I do go this way (still lots to consider and much to work out - the devil is in the details) the 3Ph supply would only be on a single circuit.

All of this is related back to the engine being good enough for this duty not to mention propulsion of the boat.

I know I am obsessing over the engine but much depends on it. Only get one chance to get the engine right - if i miss that chance in the big port where she is currently then the rectification of any needed engine work in the bush will cost many times what it will cost while the boat is in civilization.

One other thing I thought about was engine mounts. Will definitely replace those.

[Jim Cate]

If so, one could have a brand new engine with all the marinized parts bolted to it and sail off into the sunset with a new engine.

Just a t hought: my experience has been that it is the "marinizing parts" that are usually the source of difficulties with engines like this, not the base engine itself. To me it appears that you might be renewing the wrong bits with this approach.

But I admire your thoroughness and foresight, that's for sure.

Jim

[skipperpete]

One of the more neglected parts of the driveline is the gearbox drive plate on the flywheel, they go for years without a sound and occasionally fail either in the spline or the damper springs collapse. It’s worth taking off the gearbox to inspect it before heading into a remote area.

[warren2]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Volvos recommendations at 6000 hours are not terribly onerous

I’d inspect the injector tips and replace if necessary

I’d inspect the exhaust elbow and remove and clean the heat exchanger

Certainly service the raw water pump , especially if any leaks. The front and back plates may have excessive wear.

If the engine has been well used and maintained that’s better then an under utilised engine.

Check for oil leaks , coolant in oil etc. verify all alarms work , considering fitting a raw water flow alarm , replace all usual annual service items.

These engines are good for years and years is serviced and minded

I have a d2-75, same as yours but with a turbo. The exhaust elbow is very poor quality and I have replaced it 2 times. There is a company offering a stainless replacement and I would suggest you fit 1. Also carefully check the water circulation pump for salt crystals which are a sign of impending seal failure.

[more]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

DougR (or anyone who might know),

Would it be possible to take all the marinized parts off the original D2-55C and put them on this engine ;

https://sklep.agromaj.com.pl/en/perk...04c-22-p10992#

https://industrialenginesusa.com/sho...for-sale?Valve

If so, one could have a brand new engine with all the marinized parts bolted to it and sail off into the sunset with a new engine. Advantages are you know all the parts are new and properly fitted and the cost would not be a massive amount above a rebuild (labour and machining time for rebore, skimming the engine block face that connects to the head, head machining etc).

Whether or not I need this I am not sure yet, but its good to have options.

yes possible, this engine you show is little expensive. ask authorized importer of perkins-CAT engine in your contry. bigest issue is number of teeth in raw water pump. you must also remove this teeth from your engine and install in new. our dealer in Croatia exact know what perkins block kit we need. always have 5 pices on stock. this block is made in +- 8 different factory Japan,USA,China with +- 100 different setup
before month this engine price be 3300€ with discount 55 horsopower

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Just a t hought: my experience has been that it is the "marinizing parts" that are usually the source of difficulties with engines like this, not the base engine itself. To me it appears that you might be renewing the wrong bits with this approach.

But I admire your thoroughness and foresight, that's for sure.

Jim

Hi Jim - you may well be right about that. I am hoping that the core of the heat exchanger is serviceable - otherwise thats a big hit right there.

I know I will have to change the elbow and as a matter of preventative maintenance I will put on a new raw water pump and a new fresh water pump/thermostat + buy spare impeller/gaskets etc so I can maintain these down the road.

The idea of the long engine is to get a new crankshaft / conrods + bearings,
camshaft + bearings, pistons + rings , Head +vales, freshwater pump, new injector pump + new injectors all fitted into a new block. Then change over the valve cover and heat exchanger (possibly a new heat exchanger - we'll see how it looks upon disassembly) and the bell housing + gear box coupling (whatever that setup may be).

The rationale is that the new long engine would not be THAT much more expensive then an overhaul by time labour and machining time is factored in. However as skipperpete mentioned, the industrial version of this engine may be setup with a governor and that would be a big problem.

However the freight of that engine would be a big deal so it may not make sense in the current crazy over the top freight rates going on right now.

I am hoping the bottom end of the engine is tight and solid and all I have to do is concentrate on the replacement of the marinized bits + water pump and injector service.

However, a boat that is 35 years old and looks as though its been through one engine change does not bode well to me in terms of its mechanical systems being in tip top shape and I am expecting to find many little "gotchas" during this process.

I am definitely going to pull the engine out and have a good poke around in there replacing what I can while I have the chance.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

One of the more neglected parts of the driveline is the gearbox drive plate on the flywheel, they go for years without a sound and occasionally fail either in the spline or the damper springs collapse. It’s worth taking off the gearbox to inspect it before heading into a remote area.

Hi skipperpete - Again, great advice.

I have been giving this some thought. When the engine comes out the gear box will come out as well and I plan to get it serviced (although I am not sure what a gear box service would consist of?).

I am not really sure how the gearbox is coupled to the engine in a marine setup. But whatever the setup is I will put new parts in where I can. I dont want to be opening the gearbox/engine connection up down the road.

What options do I have in terms of coupling? I dont much about this and will have to do some research.

[more]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Just a t hought: my experience has been that it is the "marinizing parts" that are usually the source of difficulties with engines like this, not the base engine itself. To me it appears that you might be renewing the wrong bits with this approach.

But I admire your thoroughness and foresight, that's for sure.

Jim

and you are wrong,
mayor difficulty problem is
electric panel special VP eletric box on engine
(solution this type engine dont need eletric pull extra wire from box to start engine on engine direct. If you dont know what wire on startr solenide make wire kit for emergency start engine.

second problem is heat exchanged body made in India ,on exit SS gasket ussualy eat Body of heat exchanger.
solution use exehaust liquid gasket and made aluminium gasket . if heat exschanger is damaged . weld aluminium layer on layer and rebulid this part.

Engine on charter boat last 8000-15000 hour without touch on engine block.
but must clean heat exschanger,service engine if something broke replace. (water pump,starter,