Volvo incompetence

[David M]

Welcome to how Volvo makes their money. Not on the original purchase price of their engines, but on the outrageous cost of their parts. Kinda sneaky eh?

[Seymore]

In about 2009 I was at Hinckleys boatyard in Savannah GA. One evening a Hallberg-Rassy 42 come in, towed by

TowBoatUS, and I took their lines. There was a couple on board and she was almost crying.

They'd bought the boat on the Chesapeake and almost immediately the turbo on the Volvo engine disintegrated. They

got a mechanic to replace the turbo, and then made it down to Savannah, where the Volvo stopped running and refused

to start again. I told them they'd come to the right place.

It developed that the Chesapeake mechanic had left a piece of the old turbo casing behind, in the intake manifold! It had worked its way into a cylinder, where it jammed between the piston and the cylinder head. The block was distorted and the engine was scrap. Warranty DENIED! A new engine had to be flown in from Volvo in Sweden: $25.000. Hinckleys installed the new engine,

They stayed for awhile , then they were on their way. They went to the Bahamas in the winter and the Chesapeake in the summer. stopping in Savannah for maintenance on their way through. With the warranty and Hinckleys maintenance, the engine ran fine until they sold the boat six years later.

[a64pilot]

There are and have been direct drive locomotives, they are however problematic.
Likely US taxpayers paid for the development of Diesel / electric locomotives as they are similar to old Submarine propulsive units.

Using electric drive for ships does a lot of things, like make azipods possible and you can put the gensets anywhere you like and you don’t lose all that space that a driveshaft takes up, however it is less efficient than direct drive, so I assume most big cargo ships are still direct drive?

Thing is it just doesn’t scale very well, meaning the smaller it gets, the more expensive per HP it becomes, and space wise, is anything more compact than a saildrive?

[kmacdonald]

The Betas use Kubota engines and add a seawater pump and water cooled exhaust manifold/heat exchanger and sell it for triple what you can get the Kubota engine for. Yanmar does the same except they use their own engines. They mark up their exhaust manifolds/heat exchanger and raw water pumps so its not economical to make your own marinized version with their parts. There are few other parts they add in the process but nothing expensive. Volvo does the same. That's the way it works and if they all stick to the game plan they can get away with it. The best kept secret is you don't need to have a water cooled exhaust manifold, can mount a standard raw water pump next to the engine, use a standard heat exchanger, and an aftermarket mixing elbow for less than half the cost of a marine diesel.

Just to nail the point home, look at the Kubota compact tractors, you can get an entire diesel tractor for less than a 35HP Beta with the same base engine in it. Same goes for Yanmar tractors.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by TreblePlink

Diesel locomotives do the same - I understand this arrangement improves low-speed torque.

Question for you marine engineer types on CF: Why is it done on ships?

Both Turbo-electric and Diesel-electric ships were around well before WW2.. notably Union Steamship Company of New Zealand's fast inter island ferries such as Union Steam Ship Co - T.E.V. Rangatira - 1931 to 1968

During WW2 the entire US production of steam turbines was going into warships and fast merchant ships such as the Victorys. Thus the decision was made to build the fast T2 tankers as turbo-electric....

Post war drillships were diesel electric as the electricity would go to turning the props will shifting from hole to hole. Once anchored up the power would be sent to the drill floor. The one I was on, Glomar Grand Isle, had bridge 'telegraphs' out of Baldwin locomotives...

Ping
Trivia King

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The best kept secret is you don't need to have a water cooled exhaust manifold, can mount a standard raw water pump next to the engine, use a standard heat exchanger, and an aftermarket mixing elbow for less than half the cost of a marine diesel.

Just to nail the point home, look at the Kubota compact tractors, you can get an entire diesel tractor for less than a 35HP Beta with the same base engine in it. Same goes for Yanmar tractors.

This is a secret..why?

It's a reality. That's simply what a "marinized" tractor engine simply is.

Either you buy the tractor engine and buy the additional parts, or you pay someone else to do it for you as a package.

And don't forget the mounts. All of the parts do add up.

This is simply NOT a secret, since all of us who have diesel engines in our boats know how they work.

Not to say anyone is happy about the cost difference.

I'm just happy my engine is painted bronze (or gray or blue) and not green.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The Betas use Kubota engines and add a seawater pump and water cooled exhaust manifold/heat exchanger and sell it for triple what you can get the Kubota engine for. Yanmar does the same except they use their own engines. They mark up their exhaust manifolds/heat exchanger and raw water pumps so its not economical to make your own marinized version with their parts. There are few other parts they add in the process but nothing expensive. Volvo does the same. That's the way it works and if they all stick to the game plan they can get away with it. The best kept secret is you don't need to have a water cooled exhaust manifold, can mount a standard raw water pump next to the engine, use a standard heat exchanger, and an aftermarket mixing elbow for less than half the cost of a marine diesel.

Just to nail the point home, look at the Kubota compact tractors, you can get an entire diesel tractor for less than a 35HP Beta with the same base engine in it. Same goes for Yanmar tractors.

except my volvo is a marine specific engine and the water cooled exhaust is a necessary part of the whole engine

[Lepke]

Ebay is a good place to look for used parts. Volvo is one engine I avoid when looking at boats. Besides parts price, I think some of their engineering is poor. While all OEMs gouge, Volvo is in a class by itself.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by David M

Welcome to how Volvo makes their money. Not on the original purchase price of their engines, but on the outrageous cost of their parts. Kinda sneaky eh?

The engines are pretty outrageous too (as are all marine diesels) when you consider what you are actually buying.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Chiquita1

I run a 7kw electric drive on a 48 volt system using 4 agm 210 amp batteries. Range at full throttle is 5.1 knots for about 3.5 hrs. At half throttle at 3.5 knots range is 12 hours or 42 nm. If I go cruising I take along a portable 2Kw Honda generator. If I run at half throttle the generator will both run the electric drive and charge the batteries, thus giving me more range than I had with the original Atomic 4.

Although solar and/or wind generators are options for charging, because I still club race, I have yet to put them on my boat, because they would take a beating from my crew. I plug in at the marina and am fully charged within 4 hours.

I think electric is a fine idea for a day sailor or maybe even a weekender, but for extended cruising/voyaging, the charge source becomes the issue. TANSTAFL, you must get that energy from somewhere...and for long periods away from grid power that means a sufficiently large genset+charger to recharge in a reasonable period of time...now you are right back to having an internal combustion engine to maintain.

Electric only drive would be a fine idea for my Hobie 33 though!

[Pete7]

Mike,

How about contacting these folk to see if they can offer something:

https://www.parts4engines.com/volvo-...eatured&page=2

[BlackHeron]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Ebay is a good place to look for used parts. Volvo is one engine I avoid when looking at boats. Besides parts price, I think some of their engineering is poor. While all OEMs gouge, Volvo is in a class by itself.

Just buy a whole spare engine. Easiest/cheapest/best way to buy a full suite of replacement parts.