Wagner N40 Helm Control Valve

[Drew74]

Hey all,

So I recently had my wagner 40 helm pump and hydraulic rebuilt.

The control valve, on the other hand, they were unable to fix due to the part not being sold nor serviced for over a few decades lol.

So, hoping to discover some information on here.

Any one have any ideas on how to disengage the helm pump if I need to use my Tiller for an emergency? Other parts from other manufacturers that may work?

Thank you!

[GordMay]

Wagner S.E. AutoPilot Installation & Operation Manual [1984]
➥ https://usermanual.wiki/Document/Wag...1773291557.pdf

[Bill O]

So what is the issue w/your control valve? Only thing that could really break internally might be the springs.

If you take it apart you will see it is a nice piece of machining to make the ports and the rest are springs and plungers w/o-rings actuated by the positioning knob.

Ours is an older model and rebuilt it w/Viton o-rings to stop the slight oil leaks from the side ports. (It's been a while since the rebuild and do not remember the exact size of the o-rings except they were SAE)

I've attached the HCV manual that contains the parts drawing that Jensen provided of the 90's sail valve.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Wagner S.E. AutoPilot Installation & Operation Manual [1984]
➥ https://usermanual.wiki/Document/Wag...1773291557.pdf

Gord, that is an interesting manual, but the helm control valve is additional equipment that is used in conjunction w/the a special sailing steering/helm pump. Since the sail helm pumps do not have any lock valves in them, the HCV is used to bypass the helm pump (emergency tiller), allow full rudder feel at the helm (2nd position) or full engagement of the valves like typical hydraulic steering (3rd position). The 3rd position is used when a hydraulic AP pump is in use.

The newer, smarter version of the hydraulic AP uses pypilot for the controller and interface. It does much more than the older point and shoot APs. https://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/se...el/Electronics

[Drew74]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Gord, that is an interesting manual, but the helm control valve is additional equipment that is used in conjunction w/the a special sailing steering/helm pump. Since the sail helm pumps do not have any lock valves in them, the HCV is used to bypass the helm pump (emergency tiller), allow full rudder feel at the helm (2nd position) or full engagement of the valves like typical hydraulic steering (3rd position). The 3rd position is used when a hydraulic AP pump is in use.

The newer, smarter version of the hydraulic AP uses pypilot for the controller and interface. It does much more than the older point and shoot APs. https://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/se...el/Electronics

I didn't realize it would allow full feel of the helm. This really makes me want to rebuild it.

So if I screw it up would you think a hydraulic shop could fix it? Looking to have new hoses built as well.

Thank you for this! Wonderful info!!

[Bill O]

Drew,
Let's go backwards a bit and ask you what helm pump you have currently in spot?

I assumed you still had the Wagner sailing helm pump in your boat. If you've sailed the boat w/the current helm pump, does the wheel move when sailing like you can feel the rudder?
If it was replaced w/a different helm pump that has locks in it (typical), then you will never get any rudder feedback at the helm (sorry).

When I was rebuilding our old Wagner steering system years ago, I did see helm pumps for sale w/no locks in them. This is when you'd want the HCV in place to ensure everything worked properly and when you wanted it you could switch to position 2 to get rudder feedback.

If you do have the locked helm pump, they do make safety bypass valves to insert into the system (manual or electronic control) to use the emergency tiller.

[Drew74]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Drew,
Let's go backwards a bit and ask you what helm pump you have currently in spot?

I assumed you still had the Wagner sailing helm pump in your boat. If you've sailed the boat w/the current helm pump, does the wheel move when sailing like you can feel the rudder?
If it was replaced w/a different helm pump that has locks in it (typical), then you will never get any rudder feedback at the helm (sorry).

When I was rebuilding our old Wagner steering system years ago, I did see helm pumps for sale w/no locks in them. This is when you'd want the HCV in place to ensure everything worked properly and when you wanted it you could switch to position 2 to get rudder feedback.

If you do have the locked helm pump, they do make safety bypass valves to insert into the system (manual or electronic control) to use the emergency tiller.

Hey Bill,

I just got this message. Great info!

I had the wagner n40 helm pump shipped down to CA to be serviced. I can feel weather helm while sailing but I was not informed on whether it was able to lock or not. Don't believe it does. I was informed I could easily rebuild the control valve. I just need rubber gaskets that any hydraulic place would have. Or he would sell me a kit for $80. for another valve of similar build.

It was connected to a kobelt auto pilot pump. Any info on those?

Again- thank you!

D