Water in engine!

[Captainjohn1975]

I have a Perkins 4-108. I noticed low oil pressure and then way too much oil in bilge. Turns out sea water had somehow entered the engine. Curios what a complete rebuild would cost.

[hobopacket]

Would you be taking the engine out and just having the shop do it and you reinstalling?

Big price difference.

I would first take the head off yourself and inspect. Maybe it's just the gasket? Do a compression test. Take the head off and snap and post the pictures.

We could help a lot more with more information.

But, ballpark to have a yard do all the work for takeout, rebuild, install. 6-8k maybe more.

[a64pilot]

Is it running?
If so have you changed the oil?
Step one that in my opinion needs doing right away is get oil into the cylinders and of course find and stop the water from getting in.
Price of an overhaul depends on condition of the components and what you consider the word complete to mean. Not trying to be sarcastic, but many people only replace parts that are worn out re-using those that are not, some replace everything and then there is the fuel system, some do nothing with it, some overhaul the pump and injectors.

[zeehag]

did you crank engine a long time?? that will pump water into engine, especially if riser is not tall enough. or a gasket or seal could be bad.
rebuild prices vary on region in which you desperately need to relocate from.

[Diesel Bill]

How was the engine running before this happened? was it running fine with no issues or was it burning oil and hard starting? How many hours on it? If all was well before and this just happened you could fix the water leak, (pump seals?) hopefully and do oil and filter changes a few times to flush it out. It's possible the engine wasn't hurt if you didn't run the snot out of it with a crankcase full of water. Really hard to say with out more info.
I just hate to spend money unnecessarily even if it's someone else's money.
On the other hand it could be trashed and the pistons and liners torn up and main and rods wiped out. Just don't know with out seeing in person.

[Cheechako]

How long was the water in it? Can you clean it out and run it? Otherwise, there is a member on this forum that rebuilds them and likely has a rebuilt one around. Hopefully he will chime in.

[hellosailor]

Absent more information, I'll use my Magic8Ball.

You had one problem, unknown, which caused oil pressure to drop as the oil was lost into the bilge.

Magic8Ball says then you shut it down, and cranked it way too long trying to restart, which sucked in seawater through the coolant exhaust. Resulting in Problem No.2, the seawater in the engine.

Now you have two separate problems to deal with. If the seawater sits in the cylinders and engine for any length of time, it will corrode the rings and other parts badly, doing damage that requires more rebuilding.

So priority #1 would be to de-water the engine and thoroughly re-lube it, making sure fresh oil gets on the rings and cylinder walls. And dumping the rest of the engine oil from the pan, and again, relubing everything. Use cheap oil thinned with fuel or kero since it will only need to be dumped again as it chases out seawater.

Exactly how you purge the engine, your choice, many ways, flip a coin, just get the seawater out of it sooner rather than later.

Which gets you back to problem #1, somewhat harder with a flooded engine but you need to find out if you just had an oil pump failure that resulted in a leak, or the leak was somewhere else and resulted in the pressure drop. It may not need a rebuild, but you'll need to be aggressive about trying to find a good mechanic to come take a look at it. Good mechanics are damned hard to find, especially this time of year if it is the start of sailing season, but trying to find the leak without experience, with a flooded engine to consider as well...could wind up being more expensive without the mechanic.

Magic8Ball says, way to early to panic and think about rebuilds.

[Captainjohn1975]

Just discovered the water last night. I'll change oil first thing this weekend. New filter. New oil. Get that water out of there? This is a new boat to me and I may have done this by accident. A few weeks ago I tried starting the engine. It wouldn't start so I kept cranking it. Could it be that I back pressured water into it. I'll taste water and see if it's salty. The mechsnic looked at it and pushed for the rebuild. He didn't give me any other options. After reading these posts it sounds like I may have some hope

[hellosailor]

He's only an *alleged* mechanic, until you've seen him heal something.(G)

"Rebuild" can also be a vague term, until you have a full list of what will or will not be done, along with how it will be warranted, and when the job will be guaranteed finished.

A real mechanic should also be able to tell you something more specific about what's wrong, instead of just saying "It's broken." Even if it does need a "rebuild" there are always options, things that must be done versus things that probably should be done as PM while the engine is apart.

Cynics aren't born, we're made, the result of extensive hard work by many many people.(G)

[Lepke]

Most likely if you cranked for a long time, water entered thru the wet exhaust. 2nd most common is the heat exchanger. 3rd is the seal in the SW pump failing. Head gasket is rare, and usually after some other problem like overheating or extremely high rpm.
In younger days, I did marine salvage. Engines briefly submerged usually can be flushed and continue to give long service. Salt or fresh water. Engines running while submerging is another matter.
I have a 4108 on a generator. It's an easy engine to overhaul. But yours is probably still ok.
If you have water mufflers, see if there's a drain and let the water out. Break the hose at the exhaust elbow and see if water is backed up. If so, that's probably the cause. Remove the injectors, turn the engine by hand and eject any water in the cylinder. If you have compressed air, you may be able to dry the engine cylinders enough to avoid removing the head. Turn with the starter with the injectors out.
Have a mechanic pressure test the cooling system or buy one. And have a compression test done.
If it was my engine, I would get water out, do the tests, and start it up on new oil.
If it sounds and runs normal, no new smoke, I'd change the oil/filter again and call it done. Then keep an eye on the gauges.
My boat has Detroit mains with 20M+ hours when I bought it. Smoked so bad the marine fire team came when I was warming the engines to come home. They didn't start easy cold, especially if the mufflers were full of water. If I cranked too long w/o closing the sea cock, water would back up thru the cylinders into the air box (cylinder has ports). Draining the mufflers and the air box solved the problem. Later during overhaul, I didn't find any sign of water damage. Rods were professionally checked for signs of hydro lock, etc.

[Captainjohn1975]

This is all such great info. Thank you all for taking the time

[Captainjohn1975]

One of the first things That made me realize that I had an issue was the oil pressure gauge was low. Second thing I noticed was oil in the bilge. How would that oil get into the bilge. Does the new water that is now in the engine just force the oil out? Where is it usually forced out from? I must've ruined some seals with the introduction of the water. Otherwise the bilge would still be clean?
I'm going to completely drain oil from engine tomorrow and I should know exactly how much water was introduced. I plan on doing at least two oil changes tomorrow. Is it ok to mix the cleaning oil with diesel? Someone suggested this

[a64pilot]

Yes the water raises the oil level and forces it out, oftentimes out the dipstick etc., sometimes it can get high enough so that excessive oil is forced out of the breather and the engine can run away.
It's just water, you need to get it out ASAP to prevent corrosion damage, but no need to cut the oil with a solvent like Diesel, if money is tight buy cheap oil as your just going to run it for ten minutes and change it, also of course the filter too, but the water needs to come out now if possible do not wait, the steel in an engine is very high carbon strong steel and rusts if you just look at it, I have seen fingerprints rust into crankshaft journals over night, very fine rust of course, but rust.

[Captainjohn1975]

I can't get the oil out without running the engine for a bit to increase the temp. I'm scared I'm going to do more damage but don't see a choice. It's too thick to go thru hose of vacuums pump

[Diesel Bill]

I pulled cold oil out of my engines with the vacusuck type cylinder with the t-handle on top. took about 1/2 hour to pull 2-1/2 gals. lots of cursing. just do it. If the bilges are already fouled with oil just dump it there if the drain plug is accessible. You have to deal with that mess later anyway. Main thing is get it out of the engine ASAP.