westerbeke fuel problem?

[abroadreachtrvl]

Can you reach in and move the fuel rack with a screwdriver? We used to have the 3-cylinder version of that engine and on one occasion it would stick in the "stop" position
after an extended layup. It's also possible you need to take the timing cover off and clean the governor mechanism.

[mbowser]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Save any shims that were between the injector pump and the block, they’re there for the injection timing, don’t add or subtract from that shim pack. If you want to see the rack movement you have to use the stop lever, the speed control only changes the tension on a spring.

I was aware of the shims, but I've been studying the schematic and see what you are talking about regarding the speed control lever tensioning the spring. When I first looked at it, I thought that part of a schematic was separated out and was repeating parts 10, 11, and 12, but now I see they are a an assembly with 2 separate shafts and levers with a connected spring.

I ordered a cheapo usb snake camera that should be here tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to see the assembly with that if I can't see it once the injection pump is out.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by mbowser

I was aware of the shims, but I've been studying the schematic and see what you are talking about regarding the speed control lever tensioning the spring. When I first looked at it, I thought that part of a schematic was separated out and was repeating parts 10, 11, and 12, but now I see they are a an assembly with 2 separate shafts and levers with a connected spring.

I ordered a cheapo usb snake camera that should be here tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to see the assembly with that if I can't see it once the injection pump is out.

Yep , that’s correct, and all that the speed control lever does is change the tension on the spring against the governor……and the stop lever is the little hooked bit at the top of your first pic of the governor mechanism, it works directly on the 90° bend on the governor link. Did you establish that the rack is actually stuck by moving the governor link back and forth ?

[mbowser]

Amazingly, I was able to get the pump out without dropping the spring or having to remove the air intake manifold. I tied a length of fishing line onto the spring and unhooked it from the tie rod and then pulled the tie rod off the rack pin and was able to pull it right out. Now that it's done I think I got overly worked up for this particular job. The flywheel and rear main seal were much harder to do.

So now that it's out I see that one of the tappets is stuck in position and the rack won't move at all in either direction. Despite that, the tappets do not look worn and it appears to be in good condition otherwise. I'll be dropping it off at the injector shop on Monday to have them rebuild it.

Hopefully re-installation will be as easy as pulling it out and I haven't screwed up the timing (I've set aside the shim).

Thanks for all the great advice.

[skipperpete]

Good work. It actually looks like 2 of the plungers are hung up, not that it matters, they all have to come out anyway. In your photo there’s still a shim attached to the pump base, make sure it stays with the engine and doesn’t go to the pump tech. I’m only mentioning this because the quickest way to damage new plungers is to lose a shim and consequently the plunger to delivery valve clearance, ……too many shims only makes injection late but too few will advance the injection as the cassette sits lower in the block and the gap at the top of the plunger stroke is often tiny (depending on engine type) when correctly adjusted by the pump tech on the bench.

[mbowser]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

Good work. It actually looks like 2 of the plungers are hung up, not that it matters, they all have to come out anyway. In your photo there’s still a shim attached to the pump base, make sure it stays with the engine and doesn’t go to the pump tech. I’m only mentioning this because the quickest way to damage new plungers is to lose a shim and consequently the plunger to delivery valve clearance, ……too many shims only makes injection late but too few will advance the injection as the cassette sits lower in the block and the gap at the top of the plunger stroke is often tiny (depending on engine type) when correctly adjusted by the pump tech on the bench.

Good plan, I did take the shim off after I took the photos, I was just so excited that it came out without a fight and I still have the spring captive and ready to go that I had to share . I'll follow up when I get the pump back from the shop. Hopefully it won't take too long, but I'd expect a few days depending on their backlog and how many parts they need to order.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by mbowser

Good plan, I did take the shim off after I took the photos, I was just so excited that it came out without a fight and I still have the spring captive and ready to go that I had to share . I'll follow up when I get the pump back from the shop. Hopefully it won't take too long, but I'd expect a few days depending on their backlog and how many parts they need to order.

Yeah, I suspected that you probably did take it off. Another suggestion is to treat the governor link gently, as you now know it’s only held on the pin by the spring loop, without tension it loosens up a bit. From memory, it’s possible to re hook the spring without major surgery, just a mirror, a flashlight, a steady hand and a certain degree of patience.

[mbowser]

I was worried about knocking it off the other end, so I have the fishing line tied from the spring to a small weight coming out of the case and pulling in the opposite direction. Becasue I am a big doofus and will invariably knock something into the engine while it's guts are exposed, I've decided not to go near it until I have the rebuilt pump in hand.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by mbowser

I was worried about knocking it off the other end, so I have the fishing line tied from the spring to a small weight coming out of the case and pulling in the opposite direction. Becasue I am a big doofus and will invariably knock something into the engine while it's guts are exposed, I've decided not to go near it until I have the rebuilt pump in hand.

Perfect, excellent idea.

[sinnerman]

On my Universal/Westerbeke 3 cylinder (actually a Kubota tractor engine adapted for marine use), you can disassemble the injector pump very easily to clean the pump plungers. Kubota sells replacement parts as well.

The threaded fittings on the top of the pump where the injector lines connect will need to be removed as well.

They contain a small check valve to prevent (trap) the fuel in the injector lines from draining back into the pump between injector firings. These check valves will need to be cleaned or replaced as well.

This pump is extremely simple (actually called a jerk pump), and at least on my engine there are no adjustments.

The only issue would be to not swap around plunger parts between the different bores as they are extremely tight tolerance parts and most likely matched to their individual bores...

My two cents.

Cheers

[JPA Cate]

My wife would likely not appreciate making a injection pump cassarole with a motor oil demiglaze in the kitchen.

You probably thought of this, but you can do it on a camp stove, out of doors, and use an optical thermometer. Old pots available from thrift shops. (No harm done to pristine galleys.)

Ann

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

On my Universal/Westerbeke 3 cylinder (actually a Kubota tractor engine adapted for marine use), you can disassemble the injector pump very easily to clean the pump plungers. Kubota sells replacement parts as well.

The threaded fittings on the top of the pump where the injector lines connect will need to be removed as well.

They contain a small check valve to prevent (trap) the fuel in the injector lines from draining back into the pump between injector firings. These check valves will need to be cleaned or replaced as well.

This pump is extremely simple (actually called a jerk pump), and at least on my engine there are no adjustments.

The only issue would be to not swap around plunger parts between the different bores as they are extremely tight tolerance parts and most likely matched to their individual bores...

My two cents.

Cheers

Sinnerman, what you do with your own injector pump is entirely up to you and your personal level of knowledge and skill but suggesting that forum members can repair their own injector pump might imply that very little or no skill is required when in fact there are many ways this can go seriously wrong. There’s a good reason why regular general marine diesel mechanics don’t delve too deeply ( beyond governor adjustments, timing and delivery valves) into injector pump repairs…… it’s a specialist job, even on simple cassette pumps as found on Yanmar, Kubota and Shibaura engines. Phasing, calibration and head clearance are vital adjustments that simply cannot be done on the galley table, for instance , how do you adjust and measure a less than 2% injection volume between cylinders or a phase angle of below .5°?…. I know for sure I can’t without the correct tooling.
I mentioned “seriously wrong” earlier, this can include breaking the pump plungers because of faulty head gaps, unbalanced power output across the cylinders due to faulty phasing or calibration (this shows as excessive vibration) and in the worst case scenario, an uncontrolled overspeed from a stuck or damaged plunger or rack.

[mbowser]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm calling this one 'above my pay grade'. I'm an engineer by trade, but this is not my field and I'm more than happy to have someone who has the proper skillset and tooling do the job correctly. I dropped the pump off at the injection shop today. When I walked in the door and put it up on the counter, the woman working the front desk picked it up and immediately recognized the pump as a Desno (there are no visible markings on the pump) and pointed out several problems (frozen rack as well as one of the cylinder plungers). I'm taking it as a good sign when the person working the front desk knows more about pumps than I do.

[mbowser]

I finally got the injection pump back from the shop. It needed a full rebuild; I guess they don't like sitting in a garage for 10 years without being used. Anyway, the re-install was drama free and surprisingly easy. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get the governor tie rod and spring back on the rack but it really wasn't.

It took a bit to get the high pressure side of the fuel system primed, but once I did it fired right up and ran very smoothly. A sweet sound it was. Water flow was good out the exhaust and there was zero smoke. I adjusted the idle setting a bit, but other than that I am super happy with the result.

I uploaded the event to youtube to celebrate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-MZqK8WnH8

[skipperpete]

Good work! Congratulations on getting her running again, I hope the bill from the fuel injection tech wasn’t horrific.