What is the Absolute Lightest Propulsion Available?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I didn't read the full thread but your "original" post:

"Imagine you wanted to get ashore, but they don’t allow you to leave your regular dinghy overnight.

You need to get ashore 2 miles away and get back later too, but you can’t leave a trace ashore or it’ll be confiscated or stolen. You must bring it all with you."

I don't think the inflatable kayak idea can do 60 mph for 100-120 miles either.

Something like the radwagon has a 675 wh battery. They claim a 24-45mile range. So 4 miles round trip, even under heavy loading should only be maybe 200wh (50w solar panels)

Oh yeah. You know how the forum gets. You have to be careful what you say. If I started off with what the actual situation was, the thread would not have evolved properly.

You often have to ask a very narrow focused question in order to get responses to that question. If you ask somebody how to put a motorcycle on and off a boat all you get is “you can’t do that.”

But most definitely the inflatable kayak idea or inflatable raft can do 60 miles an hour for 100 to 120 miles. It gets deflated in that idea, then rolled up and tied to the motorcycle.

[MicHughV]

Saw this other idea for you...

It's an inflatable wing sail for a SUP.

Not very big, maybe a 4' wingspan. I don't know how to post that video.

Similar to what you see kiteboarders use, but much smaller...you hold it in your hands, no lines.

When done, deflate it, and it is so small it could fit in your pocket...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Saw this other idea for you...

It's an inflatable wing sail for a SUP.

Not very big, maybe a 4' wingspan. I don't know how to post that video.

Similar to what you see kiteboarders use, but much smaller...you hold it in your hands, no lines.

When done, deflate it, and it is so small it could fit in your pocket...

I think you’re talking about this thing. Pretty cool actually.



Eliminating the Outboard in this idea would really help a lot with weight and energy usage.

You would certainly need some kind of center board or fins or whatever to be able to sail. Kind of a neat idea though.

[MicHughV]

Something like this. I couldn't find thew video I wanted to share with you as it has a smaller wingsail, but you get the idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2HKyHOUuoo

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Oh yeah. You know how the forum gets. You have to be careful what you say. If I started off with what the actual situation was, the thread would not have evolved properly.

You often have to ask a very narrow focused question in order to get responses to that question. If you ask somebody how to put a motorcycle on and off a boat all you get is “you can’t do that.”

But most definitely the inflatable kayak idea or inflatable raft can do 60 miles an hour for 100 to 120 miles. It gets deflated in that idea, then rolled up and tied to the motorcycle.

... or I "know how the OP gets."

It's a public water cooler conversation. You don't get to control it.

----

My thought, if I was really stuck on the motorcycle idea, would be to downsize to a Honda Trail 90/120, but this also is not what you want. For me, I would take a good road bike, which will weigh 20 pounds, but limit the practical radius to about 20 miles, depending on fitness. I would find a place to stash the dinghy or inflatable kayak. I would use a dock to unload--that is why they invented them, many centuries ago.

These ideas work just for most of us and we don't want anything more complicated. Too much like work. If we really want to go farther, we rent a car, take the bus, or unload our toys at a dock. Easier than all this faffing about than the expedition aproach.



But I'm guessing your don't want that sort of feedback.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

... or I "know how the OP gets."

It's a public water cooler conversation. You don't get to control it.

----

My thought, if I was really stuck on the motorcycle idea, would be to downsize to a Honda Trail 90/120, but this also is not what you want. For me, I would take a good road bike, which will weigh 20 pounds, but limit the practical radius to about 20 miles, depending on fitness. I would find a place to stash the dinghy or inflatable kayak. I would use a dock to unload--that is why they invented them, many centuries ago.

These ideas work just for most of us and we don't want anything more complicated. Too much like work. If we really want to go farther, we rent a car, take the bus, or unload our toys at a dock. Easier than all this faffing about than the expedition aproach.



But I'm guessing your don't want that sort of feedback.

You do get to control it a little bit. It’s a water cooler, but you control the premise of the conversation by your initial question and your replies.

Otherwise, how else would anything get figured out here?

Sometimes you have the floor. That’s when you start the discussion. When you start a thread. The person who starts the thread has the floor in that case. They are not a commenter. They are the object of the comments. I’m sure you understand that, no?

So as the object of the comments, you can steer the conversation. You can do that at first by asking the question carefully. So you just get an answer to the question you are asking and not lots of other answers that don’t pertain to the situation or naysayers saying it’s impossible.

Next, when it goes off the rails, you can remind people to get back on the rails. And they do. When I am commenting versus when I am getting commented on, my behavior is different. As it should be.

You don’t know how much I have been looking at a trail 125. Or maybe a grom or something. Or a postie maybe. Or those Yamaha TW200s. The reality is my dry weight is 286 pounds. And it’s free. I don’t have to buy something new. I already have it. So that doesn’t really save me much weight over these other bikes. For that reason, I was sticking with this one. Once it breaks, I would reevaluate. Like if it rust away or I can’t use it for some reason anymore.

If you look back a couple posts, unloading at the dock did become the primary technique for the motorcycle. Then it just becomes a matter of trying to secure it from theft on land for a week or a month or however long you are at the Anchorage.

This simplifies the leave no trace mantra. Because you can bring an inflatable kayak or some other very small very lightweight and human propelled item with you and just deflate it and throw it on the bike.

Speaking of bikes, a bicycle is already part of the plan. So is a longboard skateboard. As an example of steering the conversation, I will remind you that this is about going 100 or 120 miles inland in a day and then coming back the next day. In a place where you don’t have public transportation, no Uber, no taxis. The reality of many places that I frequent.

There were also some interesting non-motorcycle approaches like moving a car all around with you. Again, you might have to read back a page. The thread has evolved quite a bit since what you are talking about I think.

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Up to my usual kooky stuff here. Thought experiments, basically.

Imagine you wanted to get ashore, but they don’t allow you to leave your regular dinghy overnight.

You need to get ashore 2 miles away and get back later too, but you can’t leave a trace ashore or it’ll be confiscated or stolen. You must bring it all with you.

A lightweight, roll up raft could work if it was light enough. But how would you get it moved the 4 mile round trip?

A tiny outboard seems like it’ll work. What’s the lightest one made? Or is there another type of propulsion that would work?

I’d say rowing, but the lightweight roll up raft won’t row properly.

Electric? The battery weighs a ton, right?

How would you do this, given you also bring the stuff that got you ashore with you? Assume you also can bring a little dolly ashore to wheel the stuff around but you must minimize the weight on the dolly.

How would you do it?

Note: I have a RIB with a 9.9 tohatsu. This is a secondary way of getting ashore in other “leave no trace” situations

I haven’t read the 14 pages however based on the original post i Would suggest a dry suit and the device divers use to propel themselves through the water , electric , I had a gas powered one Years ago, that way when you get to shore you can take off your dry suit and your Tuxedo will be perfectly dry

[thinwater]

The only thing I will say about steering vs. not steering the conversation, is that often the crazy, off-topic stuff is where the gems hide. The conventional answer is too easy to find. You know this.


We all with posters will have read the whole thread. Good luck with that, even on threads only a few posts long. Many will just respond to the initial question and read none of it. Oh well. It's tempting to correct everything, but ultimately useless and rude. I'm guilty.

[purvisgs]

Any update? would be fun to hear if any progress, field trials or mishaps have been made towards these dreams/goals

Obviously the 'strap it to a raft and roll it over the side' idea did not(would not) work, (work as in: hold up long term hauling a motorbike). Might get lucky doing that once or twice, just like most of the other ideas being thrown around, no I didn't read or reread the whole thread but yes I skimmed quite a lot of it...

The lightest ~150-200cc motorcycle (since you're talking 100 miles inland) - will be at least 250-275lbs with fluids, with few if any exceptions. Electric bikes/motorbikes shouldn't be written off completely by the way- any decent or better electric bicycle might easily double your 'real world range' vs a pedal road bike - up to 20 or 40 miles etc, & maybe you find that's enough for a lot less weight/hassle than a dual sport. Overall range isn't impressive yet on 'lightweight' or 'budget' electric motorcycles- but could always top up or charge anywhere you find a 120v plug, so not necessarily relying on the boat's systems. not out of the question making one work as a shore vehicle.

Anyways- if hauling a 250-300lb motorbike to shore is still the goal- I think the 10-12ft semi-rigid inflatable catamaran with a solid transom is the most 'reasonable' idea. might keep the bare boat weight around 100lb.

Forget the minnekota and even a torqueedo. The lightest possible propulsion (outboard) is probably a vintage 2-s cruise'n'cary, tomos, tanka 1.2-2hp at around 11-17lbs. Suzuki 2.5hp 4-s in not much more at 27lbs, and next step up; tohatsu 3.5hp 2-s also 27lbs.

The lightest inflatable paddle boards (and single inflatable kayaks) end up weighing around 15-20lbs. You can find tandem kayaks starting around 22lbs+, for flat water. None of these pack down small for transport, we're talking full huge oversized backpack, generally speaking.

the lightest packrafts that can handle a bit of cargo & abuse, as a dinghy (no, not hauling a motorbike, at least not regularly, by any means) weigh about 6-15lbs. They don't paddle well, they don't have much freeboard, but at least they will pack down small, so COULD realistically be carried around with you on a bike etc instead of left behind.

I don't see deflating these various boats, hiding em, and chaining them up "in the bushes" etc happening more than rarely. If dinghy/outboard theft is your concern, an unofficial policy that's worked for me is to just make yours the ugly duckling in the pack- and therefore not the most attractive target for theft, basically.

[thomm225]

Folding kayak with kayak cart.

You can store the folding kayak on deck when not in use or disassemble and store back in it's backpack.

My 16'6' folding kayak weighs 45 pounds.

Pace kayak on your kayak cart once ashore, you can take it with you.

[Chotu]

I’m so glad this thread just came back alive. Thank you for the posts.

It won’t be happening this summer unfortunately. There was some unpleasant business that happened but I’m not allowed to talk about on the forum.

Part of that was that my motorcycle was not loaded on the boat. It is in a distant location.

This is still a very big goal.

One thing I do have is an extra rib. One with a bad transom.

I was thinking maybe there’s a way to put it in the rib upright and roll it in and out where the transom is supposed to be. Then make a second trip for myself paddling an inflatable kayak or something