What's This? On 4-107

[GrowleyMonster]

I wonder if this is the lube oil pump-out port I keep hearing about? Not that it matters much cause can't get to it anyway.

[skipperpete]

I can’t be certain but I think that’s the cap on the original mechanical tacho drive.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I can’t be certain but I think that’s the cap on the original mechanical tacho drive.

Wow that's interesting. Thanks Pete!

[skipperpete]

On the lube oil pump subject, its further towards the flywheel on the same side but on a protrusion thats on the side of the oil pan, not the block….. and as far as I know, only on the cast aluminium oil pans not the pressed steel ones.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

On the lube oil pump subject, its further towards the flywheel on the same side but on a protrusion thats on the side of the oil pan, not the block….. and as far as I know, only on the cast aluminium oil pans not the pressed steel ones.

Darn. My oil pan is a steel one. And I was pretty much all over it to the extent that my boat yoga skills allow, anyway. Sucking it up through the dipstick tube doesn't work very well, leaves a quart and a half behind. The drain plug is almost impossible to get to and can't get a container under it.

[Jim Cate]

The drain plug is almost impossible to get to and can't get a container under it.

Could you temporarily jack the engine up enough to screw in an adaptor in place of the drain plug, one that would have a permanent hose for extracting the oil... shut off valve too, of course!

I've seen such on awkward engines in the past.

Jim

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Could you temporarily jack the engine up enough to screw in an adaptor in place of the drain plug, one that would have a permanent hose for extracting the oil... shut off valve too, of course!

I've seen such on awkward engines in the past.

Jim

I very nearly do need to do that. I managed to get my hands and a wrench on the drain plug and remove it and spill two quarts of oil in the bilge. Well maybe only a quart but it felt like two. I can't get any sort of container down there and hold it in pIace while removing the plug. I took another plug, drilled and tapped for a pipe nipple and valve, added another bunch of pipe and elbow and cap, for slurping out the oil, but I am afraid it is leaking there. It is sort of in the way of the flywheel housing. What I need to do is indeed lift the engine and drop the oil pan, and look for a good location on the block to drill down into the sump for pump access. Maybe add a permanently installed hand pump. The engine sits down deeply in the bilge and is very "busy" with pipes and hoses and such, It's a good old engine, at 50 years old last April, but it can be such a PITA especially the way it is installed. It's almost as if Mr. Roberts took a 4-107 and designed the boat to wrap tightly around it and prevent busy hands from tampering with it.

I am really running out of spare time to devote to the boat, and I want to get that engine up to snuff and easy to maintain and operate, finish the essential wiring, and sell it. It is nothing but a project boat at the moment, and it is getting more and more project-y. When I was a single liveaboard I had plenty of time for turning wrenches and pulling wire. Now I don't.

[AKA-None]

So if you change your oil often then does that last bit really matter

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

So if you change your oil often then does that last bit really matter

Honestly not really imho I just want to sorta walk the extra mile for the old westerbeast being it is 50 years old with unknown hours and doubtful maintenance up to when I bought her. But in this case the last little bit is rather a lot of oil. When I changed the oil before, it would still be pretty black on the dipstick and after a complete drain, looked like something sweet to dip a buttermilk biscuit in.

[Lepke]

I have a 4108 as a generator engine. I have a valve at the drain hole and a hose to pump out the oil. It makes it easy and I get out all the oil. I have a centrifuge and run the oil when it starts looking black. The oil in my engines stays transparent.

[Kettlewell]

Sucking it up through the dipstick tube doesn't work very well, leaves a quart and a half behind.

What are you using to suck up the oil? I've found something like one of these oil evacuation pumps works well on most engines, if the oil is warm enough (not blazing hot). https://www.amazon.com/EWK-Pneumatic...e4cdc8f10&th=1

I'm not a fan of messing with the oil drain plug on the bottom of the engine where if something fails or comes undone you lose all the engine oil.

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

What are you using to suck up the oil? I've found something like one of these oil evacuation pumps works well on most engines, if the oil is warm enough (not blazing hot). https://www.amazon.com/EWK-Pneumatic...e4cdc8f10&th=1

I have the same vac and use it on my 4108 shove the skinny tube down the dipstick hole and suck it all out. My 4108 also has the built in oil pump near the fuel lift pump. it works and will get out 90% of the oil.

my engine sat for 8 years so I really wanted to get all of the old nastiness out.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

What are you using to suck up the oil? I've found something like one of these oil evacuation pumps works well on most engines, if the oil is warm enough (not blazing hot). https://www.amazon.com/EWK-Pneumatic...e4cdc8f10&th=1

I'm not a fan of messing with the oil drain plug on the bottom of the engine where if something fails or comes undone you lose all the engine oil.

Yes, I always run the engine for a few minutes before an oil change to heat up the oil. I had been using a clear vinyl hose stuck down the dipstick tube, and electric pump. I ran it until it sucked air. Unfortunately the dipstick tube is at the forward end of the engine and the aft end of the oil pan is lower than the forward end. The drain plug is at the aft end, of course. I would rather not mess with the plug, either, especially this one because it is so hard to get to. If I ever have cause to remove or raise the engine, something will be done to address the oil removal issue that does not involve removing or modifying the drain plug.

[marcjsmith]

GW.... could you put a bend in the bottom 3-4" of the vaccum tube tube, that way when it goes down the dipstick tube and hits the bottom of the pan. it might deflect so it can get to the bottom..

my dipstick is on the port side aft near the starter and it gets to the deep part of the pan... I toyed with adding some sort of drain and valve on the pan, but using the pump and vac works fine.

if all else fails. could you use that port thats hard to get to, to install a new dipstick tube that you can use just for pumping oil out?

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

GW.... could you put a bend in the bottom 3-4" of the vaccum tube tube, that way when it goes down the dipstick tube and hits the bottom of the pan. it might deflect so it can get to the bottom..

my dipstick is on the port side aft near the starter and it gets to the deep part of the pan... I toyed with adding some sort of drain and valve on the pan, but using the pump and vac works fine.

if all else fails. could you use that port thats hard to get to, to install a new dipstick tube that you can use just for pumping oil out?

The tube DOES go to the bottom of the oil pan, but at the frint end of the engine, the high end. The engine is oriented with the output shaft pointing aft with a straight shaft going out through the shaft log, and not a sail drive or other configuration. If my dipstick was at the aft end of the engine I could pump out through the dipstick tube and leave very little, probably a half quart or less.

The drain plug is aft and the flywheel housing restricts access to it. I did try drilling and tapping a plug to fit a nipple and valve. That doesn't work very well on this 50 year old 4-107 because of the flywheel housing. The drain points downward and at an angle aft and outward. A dipstick tube there is not going to be a thing. If I want access to the sump I have to pull the engine up to where I can work on it, drop the oil pan and look for a good spot on the block, drill and tap, put the oil pan back on, lower the engine and re-align. Not a trivial task. Or I could machine a block for threading to accept a pump or dipstick tube and weld it onto the oil pan. Me, welding, and thin steel do not always all get along together and accomplish greatness. Brazing is not really practical because of a lack of perfectly flat area where I can create a perfect mating surface necessary for a good braze joint. I don't have the resources to make a new custom oil pan or the finances to have one made. For now I am probably stuck with using the existing dipstick tube like everyone else with a 4-107 that does not have a manual pump installed.