What's Under Those Engine Mounts??

[Khaos13]

Hello Folks, I'm still working on the old Westerbeke W21A and need to raise the engine enough to remove the oil pan and con rod end caps for piston removal. The engine was seized due to rust on the cylinder walls. The head's been redone, injectors and injector pump redone by Everglades Diesel Service here in FLL. Short story endless: low compression. I believe the rings are frozen in the grooves. I'd also like to hone the cylinders.

The port side forward engine mount was badly rusted away by a leaking water pump">raw water pump. (The pan looks to be fine.) While attempting to remove the 3/8" SS bolts that hold the mount to the bed, one of them broke off deep in the hole. I was expecting a lag bolt into some glassed over wood but it was a regular threaded bolt. Does anyone know what inside the engine bed? I'd like to change all 4 mounts (if the engine runs) but I'd like to know how to repair the mounting bolts in case another one (or 2) breaks.

Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

Cheers,
Dan

_________________
CD 30 MkII Hull # 8
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

[SV Confianza]

The engine beds are usually hollow and I believe the bolts just go into a threaded insert.

[GordMay]

Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association

➥ https://sailboat.guide/cape-dory-sai...rs-association

➥ https://capedorysoa.org/

[SailingHarmonie]

there can be all kinds of ways this is done, from what you expected (lag screws into solid wood stringers) to holes drilled and tapped into metal plates that were laid into the fiberglass. The metal is usually steel, but could be bronze or stainless.

None of the usual methods will take happily to being dripped on with salt water. Dealing with broken bolts in these places is always a real PITA.

[SY Harmony]

It’s often easier to abandon that mounting location and drill new holes. Unfortunately your CD30 is a Vdrive. This rules out for/aft shifting of the engine. At best you could more the mounts in/out, or plate over the broken bolt with studs or something.

[skipperpete]

Hi Khaos13. I have an arsenal of techniques for fixing the problem that you’ve got, it’s one of the expected hurdles to be jumped when repowering boats and each type of engine bed requires a tailored repair. If it’s a lag bolt that’s rotted away the wood surrounding it I use a 2” holesaw to remove the rot and then epoxy a timber plug into the hole.... sometimes I make up a plate to span the broken bolt section a bit longer than the mount base but with 2 studs welded to the plate on top to secure the mount then redrill a couple of holes into the engine bed through that plate to secure it to the bed.... usually hex head lag screws but occasionally countersunk head bolts. Worst case scenario is to simply recap the entire length of each bed with a gal steel flat bar or Angle iron cap and redrill and tap the mounts to that top plate once the alignment is adjusted perfectly.
In your instance, you might get away with just potting a length of threaded rod in the old hole with epoxy, just bell out the wood in the area directly under the fiberglass top.

[Khaos13]

Thank you for the great ideas. This boat does not use a vee drive though I know some CD's did. The engine mounting bed appears to be a pre-made, moulded fiberglass assembly that is glassed into the hull. No wood inside. I've seen pics of similar engine beds with round inspection ports below each mount. I might start there by cutting a hole.

The biggest problem I have is no compression. That's the reason I'm messing with the mounts in the first place. If I can get this thing to run, I'll worry more about the broken bolt. I'm amazed that so far I've been able to remove the oil pan and remove an end cap to discover 4 out of 4 stuck rings. Without really lifting anything. I'll remove the other 2 pistons tomorrow. I expect the same issue. That's the problem with old sailboats, your priorities keep changing.

[Lake-Effect]

Given your current engine issues, I'm surprised that you haven't simply just pulled it out of the boat to overhaul in a shop, garage etc. Disassembling an engine in most engine bays is usually misery.

With the engine out, it's of course easier to make repairs to the mounting rails, too.

[Khaos13]

Thank you Lake-Effect but removing the engine is not an option unless I want to do the work in the cockpit. The sea wall behind my condo has collapsed from recent flooding. There is no way to get 300 lbs. of cast iron onto the narrow dock and over the ditch created by the washout. It rains (HARD) every day and in between it's super hot and humid so the cockpit is not an option. It's been relatively easy to get the engine high enough to remove the pan and end caps. In place, I have cover from the sun and rain, have a fan blowing cool air on me, and great lighting. I've already pulled the head (3 times!) while trouble shooting. I'll remove the other 2 pistons today.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Khaos13

Hello Folks, I'm still working on the old Westerbeke W21A and need to raise the engine enough to remove the oil pan and con rod end caps for piston removal. The engine was seized due to rust on the cylinder walls. The head's been redone, injectors and injector pump redone by Everglades Diesel Service here in FLL. Short story endless: low compression. I believe the rings are frozen in the grooves. I'd also like to hone the cylinders.

The port side forward engine mount was badly rusted away by a leaking raw water pump. (The pan looks to be fine.) While attempting to remove the 3/8" SS bolts that hold the mount to the bed, one of them broke off deep in the hole. I was expecting a lag bolt into some glassed over wood but it was a regular threaded bolt. Does anyone know what inside the engine bed? I'd like to change all 4 mounts (if the engine runs) but I'd like to know how to repair the mounting bolts in case another one (or 2) breaks.

Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

Cheers,
Dan

_________________
CD 30 MkII Hull # 8
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Usually the engine bed stringers are wood with fibre glass over top
Recently I did an over haull and moved the engine 1 inch forward and had a new start so to speak

[Khaos13]

No wood in there that I can tell and no way to come forward an inch. I've got all 3 pistons out and 10 out of 12 rings are seriously stuck in the grooves. I'll hone the cylinders and measure for piston clearance, taper and roundness before ordering new rings. If this works out I'll be amazed!
Cheers,
Dan

[SY Harmony]

Originally Posted by Khaos13

No wood in there that I can tell and no way to come forward an inch. I've got all 3 pistons out and 10 out of 12 rings are seriously stuck in the grooves. I'll hone the cylinders and measure for piston clearance, taper and roundness before ordering new rings. If this works out I'll be amazed!
Cheers,
Dan

How about shifting it aft 1”?

[kapnd]

A spacer in between the coupling flanges would move the engine forward.

[Fore and Aft]

If it was possible to move the engine forward a Polyflex flexible coupling would be better than a spacer.
Cheers

[Lake-Effect]

On one boat that I helped with, we made new 1/4" steel plates (painted) to sit on top of the engine bed rails. These plates were drilled and tapped for bolting in the engine mounts, and other more evenly spaced holes drilled to lagbolt the plates to the bedrails.

Of course we had to first confirm that there was more than 1/4" in mount height adjustment to play with.