Wit's end with my outboard

[rslifkin]

The fuel line check is a good idea. Plenty of fuel lines intended for outboard use are pretty poor quality. Even if they're theoretically alcohol resistant, they still may collapse internally. This includes the lines on the motor itself for the internal tank and selector valve.

[MicHughV]

Some years back...between boats....I rented a house for a short period of time...part of the deal was, that I was to mow the small lawn.
In order to do this, I was given a small gas weed whacker. It was a 2 -stroke.
I dutifully got a can of non-ethanol fuel, and mixed in the required 50: 1 ratio of 2-stroke oil.
For the first few weeks, it ran fine, then it it became a struggle to start it, after several more weeks, it wouldn't run anymore.
Exasperated, I took the thing apart, and was surprised to see the plastic fuel line from the small plastic tank to the engine, completely plugged up with " goop"....the non-ethanol fuel had eaten up the inside of that small diameter hose. Not only was that fuel line clogged up with "goop"...so to was that little carburetor. Tried as I might, I could not clean it and had to get a replacement carb, fuel line and tank.
It was a hard earned lesson for me to learn about enthanol in fuel.
Our local marina does not have the standard 10% ethanol fuel commonly found in gas stations. It sells only non-ethanol fuel. It comes as a premium off course, but folk that run outboard powered fishing boats don't want ethanol laced fuel in their tanks or engines.
I can't speak for every marina or location, but I'd be sure to check I'd be using non-ethanol fuel in little outboards.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Our local marina does not have the standard 10% ethanol fuel commonly found in gas stations. It sells only non-ethanol fuel. It comes as a premium off course, but folk that run outboard powered fishing boats don't want ethanol laced fuel in their tanks or engines.
I can't speak for every marina or location, but I'd be sure to check I'd be using non-ethanol fuel in little outboards.

It's location dependent. In some places, some stations and most fuel docks carry non ethanol. But in some places, E10 is all you can get.

[Captain Bill]

In my experience I have found that ethanol gas often causes the rubber tip of the float needle valve to swell a bit and if left to sit for a long period of time will stick in the orifice. It sound to me that what the OP experienced fits the symptoms. When it burns the gas in the carburetor it will not continue to run because it can't get any more fuel into the carb. This is especially a problem in gravity fed fuel system because there is just not enough pressure to un-stick the needle valve. It problematic enough with a tank bulb where you can develop more pressure, but it is just about impossible to un-stick the needle valve on a gravity fed system. Once one gets it apart one must check the valve for any sort of ridge on the rubber tip. This is an indication that it has in fact become swollen and should be replaced or it will continue to be a problem. Don't ask how I know. If there is no ridge it is sometimes just a little deposit left from the gas sitting so long and can be cleaned off. Good luck.

[JebLostInSpace]

Thanks everyone for all the advice and ideas. I don't have a proper update as the weather has turned sour here and I haven't worked on it the past 2 days.

I can say that the fuel was ethanol free, but was also pretty old, so that could be a problem. When the weather clears up I'll plan to try again, and if no luck I'll start taking off fuel lines and look at the carb.

I really don't know how to take the carb apart or clean it, but I trust in our lord and savior Youtube for that

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Thanks everyone for all the advice and ideas. I don't have a proper update as the weather has turned sour here and I haven't worked on it the past 2 days.

I can say that the fuel was ethanol free, but was also pretty old, so that could be a problem. When the weather clears up I'll plan to try again, and if no luck I'll start taking off fuel lines and look at the carb.

I really don't know how to take the carb apart or clean it, but I trust in our lord and savior Youtube for that

If the fuel is old, it may just be that the fuel isn't quite volatile enough to get it lit off. I've had that fight with my Honda mower before (thermal choke and no primer). When it's sat all winter, is full of fogging oil and has a tank of last year's gas in it, I can pull all I want and it'll never start unless it happens to be a really warm day for the first mow. Give a tiny whiff of carb cleaner into the airbox first, and it'll light right off on the first pull, smoke for a minute while the fogging oil burns off and run fine. After that, it'll run fine on the old fuel and usually start with it as well (although not always on the first try until it gets some new gas). The snowblower has never needed the carb cleaner after storage though, as that's electric start and has a primer (get the engine spinning then hit the primer an extra time while cranking and it lights right off).


Basically, everything has to be darn near perfect for a pull start engine to actually start. Cranking speed is pretty low, cranking time is very short, and on many small engines, they have a setup to significantly leak off compression at very low RPM to make it easier to pull. So it builds less heat in the cylinder and it's harder to get questionable fuel to light off. Once it's fired a couple cycles and gets a little heat into the piston and head, it'll usually be fine.

[Lodesman]

Did you start with a brand new fuel tank or one that was empty, clean and dry?
Or was there a little fuel in from last year?
Symptoms sounds like water in the fuel. Get a turkey baster and a clean glass jar. Prop the tank up so that one corner near the cap is the low point - let it sit for a couple minutes then stick the baster right into the bottom of that corner and suck up a basterful - empty the baster into the glass jar. Let it settle for a few minutes. If there's water (even a little bit) it will settle to the bottom. Carefully take apart your carb and clean it all out with carb cleaner. Replace the fuel, use stabilizer, etc.
If there's no water, dump the fuel back into your tank carry on troubleshooting with previous advice.

PS. There's no need to shut off the fuel if you suspect it's flooded. Shut off the choke, and with throttle wide open, give it a few pulls. If it doesn't fire at all, then it wasn't flooded. If your gear shift is integrated with the throttle, there should be a release that allows you to put the throttle wide open in neutral.

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

In my experience I have found that ethanol gas often causes the rubber tip of the float needle valve to swell a bit and if left to sit for a long period of time will stick in the orifice. It sound to me that what the OP experienced fits the symptoms. When it burns the gas in the carburetor it will not continue to run because it can't get any more fuel into the carb. This is especially a problem in gravity fed fuel system because there is just not enough pressure to un-stick the needle valve. It problematic enough with a tank bulb where you can develop more pressure, but it is just about impossible to un-stick the needle valve on a gravity fed system. Once one gets it apart one must check the valve for any sort of ridge on the rubber tip. This is an indication that it has in fact become swollen and should be replaced or it will continue to be a problem. Don't ask how I know. If there is no ridge it is sometimes just a little deposit left from the gas sitting so long and can be cleaned off. Good luck.

+1 for the stuck float valve.

You will have to take off the carb, and dismantle it to unstick a stuck float valve. Clean the whole carb while you are at it, including all the jets and bypass ports.

It is a mystery to me why anyone would recommend disabling the neutral start mechanism and try to start an outboard in gear. Besides being inherently a bit dangerous, what does starting in gear tell you about a carb/fuel line/fuel pump/gas filter problem?

[kmacdonald]

Put the safety shutoff switch thingy on. Then try to start.

[Cheechako]

If you are storing a small engine rather than often using it often, use old school alcohol free gas and your troubles will end.
Once I learned this, my lawn mower, outboards, gen set, weed whacker etc start right up in the spring after long winter storage.
Before, I used my brand new gen set once to test it. Winter came and it would not start when needed no matter what I did. Cleaned the carb bowl and it was all pitted from the alcohol gas. Have used real gas since and it starts right away, even 6-8 months after shut down!

Yeah, the gas is more expensive, but well worth it to not have trouble every time.

[deblen]

Is there an air vent on tank & is it open?

[team karst]

I just rebuilt my tohatsu/merc carb for the 2nd time in as many seasons. First time was the accel pump diaphragm flaking apart.
2nd time was all kind of bits/debris in the bowl. A shocking site at the cocoa city docks.
Mech there said to pitch the silver/gray fuel hose. The thin plastic inner liner dissolves, then makes its way thu the filter, then trashes the carb. So far so good.
Not a hard job, did it on the floating dink last time. Dont really recommend that. 2 long bolts, couple hoses, couple linkage rods and its off.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by team karst

I just rebuilt my tohatsu/merc carb for the 2nd time in as many seasons. First time was the accel pump diaphragm flaking apart.
2nd time was all kind of bits/debris in the bowl. A shocking site at the cocoa city docks.
Mech there said to pitch the silver/gray fuel hose. The thin plastic inner liner dissolves, then makes its way thu the filter, then trashes the carb. So far so good.
Not a hard job, did it on the floating dink last time. Dont really recommend that. 2 long bolts, couple hoses, couple linkage rods and its off.

Hey. I really need some information on this silver and gray hose. Is that the one that you find on the scepter gas tanks these days? It’s a very shiny silver on the outside? Plasticky feeling? And then inside is black?

Are these hoses known to cause problems? Because I just bought one and have it in use. And I would like to replace it if there is any chance of problems with it.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Hey. I really need some information on this silver and gray hose. Is that the one that you find on the scepter gas tanks these days? It’s a very shiny silver on the outside? Plasticky feeling? And then inside is black?

Are these hoses known to cause problems? Because I just bought one and have it in use. And I would like to replace it if there is any chance of problems with it.

That's probably the stuff he's referring to. Many of the type B outboard fuel lines are of questionable quality, unfortunately. I'd just use the type A1 hose you'd use for inboard gas feed lines. It's more expensive, but it's good quality and holds up well. I'm not sure if direct sunlight exposure would be an issue (might shorten the lifespan a bit), but at least inside a boat, I've seen good alcohol rated A1 hose look like new inside and out when replaced after 15 years (even with ethanol fuel use).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That's probably the stuff he's referring to. Many of the type B outboard fuel lines are of questionable quality, unfortunately. I'd just use the type A1 hose you'd use for inboard gas feed lines. It's more expensive, but it's good quality and holds up well. I'm not sure if direct sunlight exposure would be an issue (might shorten the lifespan a bit), but at least inside a boat, I've seen good alcohol rated A1 hose look like new inside and out when replaced after 15 years (even with ethanol fuel use).

Oh God no. I would never put that on my actual boat. This is for a land based generator. I used the best marine hose money can buy for the boat. It’s also important to use the right one for the boat because the ABYC standards and even the bare minimum US federal government standards require it.

I just don’t want the person I put the generator kit together for to have trouble with the carburetor because of a bad hose.