Yanmar 4jh4-TE 75hp vs Volvo Penta D2-75 (or D2-60)

[yachtodyssey]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

Among diesel engine brands, I would pick yanmar in the top 3 and volvo dead last.

Thank you !

[yachtodyssey]

Originally Posted by malbert73

CR will probably be considered the norm in a decade or less. But for now I think there are possibly bugs to be worked out. When I chartered last year the base engineer told me lightning has taken out an ECU or two also

Thank you ! Yes, many sailors with Common Rails say that this system needs to be improved in current condition.

[yachtodyssey]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Yanmar is slowly converting its engines to common rail injection. While I think the 4JH4 HE is still available with mechanical injection the smaller 4JH4 has been replaced with the 4JH57 57hp with common rail.

Many people don't like common rail because they are not really owner repairable if something goes wrong with the common rail computer. This can theoretically happen from a lightening strike (although I don't know if this can happen in the new Yanmars).

But I'd probably go with the 75HP engine anyways. It's the same size engine. These are small and light compared to engines from 20 years ago. Confirm with the builder that with the chosen prop and transmission your normal cruise speed will be at 2100-2400RPM which is right near the maximum torque for the engine (a good place to be - see attached diagram). 2100rpm would be 65% of the 3200 max RPM and would not cause carbon buildup. You'll have good fuel economy and low noise.

While it's bad to run diesels habitually at under 50% RPM, it's probably worse to run above 80% for extended periods (although a daily 5 minute run at full RPM to burn off carbon is a good thing.).

I also don't have experience with Volvo's. My Yanmar's in three boats have been been joy's. Parts availability has always been easy - although the US dealers do have territories and won't sell outside their territory.

A feathering or folding prop is a very small percentage of the boat price and will make a bigger improvement in your sailing improvement than just about anything else. While Maxiprops are good, I prefer the Flex-o-fold (same or greater thrust, less likely to grab fish traps and weed, no annual greasing, less expensive)

Thank you sir ! You answer confirm information from VDS design! It is very impressive! I will find more information about Flex-o-fold, after you post !

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by yachtodyssey

Thank you. Indeed D2 Volvo have ability to fit second alternator, for Yanmar it’s not easy.

Yanmar have a factory second alternator option, and there are aftermarket solutions.

Yanmar engines have a much better reputation although the sail drives are poor, so this only applies to shaft drive installations. The move to common rail by Yanmar and Volvo is a concern. There have been some teething problems, especially with Volvo engines, and the long term reliability on a sailboat is unclear.

This makes some of the alternatives such as Beta worthy of consideration until the dust settles on the new injection systems.

[yachtodyssey]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Yanmar have a factory second alternator option, and there are aftermarket solutions.

Yanmar engines have a much better reputation although the sail drives are poor, so this only applies to shaft drive installations. The move to common rail by Yanmar and Volvo is a concern. There have been some teething problems, especially with Volvo engines, and the long term reliability on a sailboat is unclear.

This makes some of the alternatives such as Beta worthy of consideration until the dust settles on the new injection systems.

Thank you !

[yachtodyssey]

Dear Colleagues ! Thank you all for your time and participation. Based on the results of the discussion, we decided to leave the Yanmar 75 engine inherent in the project. At the same time,pay attention to insulation of the engine. And also consider different types for props.

[a64pilot]

Common rail is not new, I had it on my 2001 Truck. It’s also very usable repairable, at least as much as mechanical injection, however it’s parts changing, your not repairing an ECU, your replacing it. Your not repairing an injector, your replacing it.

It’s just like modern automobiles, many think the computer controlled cars built in the last 40 years to not be user repairable, while just the opposite is true, very often the OBD II will even diagnose and tell you the part that needs changing.
However it may require you to think of a laptop as another tool, like a torque wrench, but the modern engines are way more tuneable etc than the old ones.

As much as I like common rail as it can make a Diesel as quiet and smooth as a gas motor, I wouldn’t want to be in the boonies without a spare injector and an ECU.

[yachtodyssey]

Thank you!

[noelex 77]

Here is a link to thread discussing some of the Volvo problems:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-188440.html

I am sure they will sort these problems out, but I still have some reservations about how these engines will cope with the fuel problems that are a common issue for cruising boats. To be fair conventional (non common rail) motors are not great at dealing with the sort of fuel dispenced in third world countries so perhaps these new motors will be better or at least no worse, but everything I have read suggests otherwise.

[yachtodyssey]

Thank you !

[MJH]

Originally Posted by yachtodyssey

Thank you. Indeed D2 Volvo have ability to fit second alternator, for Yanmar it’s not easy.

Early on I looked into adding a second alternator and gave up on the idea after consulting with Volvo Penta for my D2-55B. The parts list was long and the total cost very expensive. Better to just go with the now stock 115A alternator that comes with the engine and put your savings into solar; the less you have to use your diesel the less fuel expense and the longer it will last.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[stevensuf]

You will find the 50ish HP engines have no turbos, the 75s do, the turbos are bad for gunking up etc when you dont rev the engines, so you are forced to go much faster than normal to keep the turbos engaged, id go for the 50ish hp you should get a god 7kn with them and no problems with low revs when it suits.

[yachtodyssey]

Originally Posted by MJH

Early on I looked into adding a second alternator and gave up on the idea after consulting with Volvo Penta for my D2-55B. The parts list was long and the total cost very expensive. Better to just go with the now stock 115A alternator that comes with the engine and put your savings into solar; the less you have to use your diesel the less fuel expense and the longer it will last.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Wise thought! But we will not even put a second alternator, but a separate Panda dieselgenerator. When you train seacadets (thats main purpose our boat) constantly need to be sure that there is enough energy. Solar panels and a wind generator are very nice but more effective for a couple or family.

[a64pilot]

Since this is a all theoretical at this point, I’d say to do some research on the Fischer Panda lime of generators, maybe a Google or Fischer Panda reliability problems or similar.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Common rail is not new, I had it on my 2001 Truck. It’s also very usable repairable, at least as much as mechanical injection, however it’s parts changing, your not repairing an ECU, your replacing it. Your not repairing an injector, your replacing it.

It’s just like modern automobiles, many think the computer controlled cars built in the last 40 years to not be user repairable, while just the opposite is true, very often the OBD II will even diagnose and tell you the part that needs changing.
However it may require you to think of a laptop as another tool, like a torque wrench, but the modern engines are way more tuneable etc than the old ones.

As much as I like common rail as it can make a Diesel as quiet and smooth as a gas motor, I wouldn’t want to be in the boonies without a spare injector and an ECU.

none of the above is possible for the end user to do for Yanmars. All of the above requires a technician. I researched this when shopping for new engines and hence went Beta.