Yanmar 4jh4-TE 75hp vs Volvo Penta D2-75 (or D2-60)

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by DeValency

I think the two models the OP listed are more or less similar in reliability and cost of parts. At any case, if you buy a new engine and serve it properly you wouldn’t need too many parts for many years. Over the years I had both Yanmar and Volvo and somehow liked the Yanmar a little more for no specific reason.
As for the size, I think 75HP is appropriate but you could go to 60HP and be fine with that. I was making some studies recently as my original, factory installed is a 100HP Volvo TMD-31 beast - on a Contest 43, 14 tons) and although model 1992, runs perfectly. I never needed to get over 2600 RPM to reach maximum hull speed at any sea conditions... so naturally not using more than 70% of the engine potential output. And indeed, my boat’s builder (Contest NL) and the almost identical boat from Hallberg-Rassy are now installing a 75HP engine, both Volvo and Yanmar by client’s preference.

Well - in the meantime decided to hold the downgrade for some time as I’m liking closely at electric propulsion.... but that’s for another discussion

I honestly think people are overpowering their boats. I find that 34 HP is more than enough for my 43' 8 ton boat. While it will exceed 7.25 at 3200rpm I rarely run it over 2400 (6.5 knots) to conserve fuel. That's about 20 hp. I'd expect the OP's boat, and most others of similar hull shape and weight could do the same. A 15 ton boat would not need twice as much HP. I know that many members of the this forum are conservative, even boat owners in general want a bit more just to be safe, but you save cost, size, and weight with a motor that meets your needs rather than one which is virtually always much more than you need.

And I know this will seem like blasphemy, but your sails give you all the power you would ever need, so when the weather is against you and the waves are slowing your forward progress, if you have a short distance to go, OK, you run your motor and accept the slower speed. Otherwise, put up your sails and start tacking towards your destination. You'll find that the ride, sound, fuel use, everything is better, and you're SAILING!

[LongRange]

We have a D2-75 on our 45' monohull which displaces 10.5 t dry. Most of the time the boat feels overpowered, with hull speed reached by 1550 RPM in calm conditions. The other day we motored upwind through a squall with friends who have an Oceanis 45 with a 55 HP engine. It was clear that they could not maintain the same speed, and I was thankful for the power reserve.

Knock on wood, reliability has been flawless, though I think the previous owner has replaced an MDI box.

[Scaramanga F25]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

Among diesel engine brands, I would pick yanmar in the top 3 and volvo dead last.

I have waited 3 months for a new Volvo camshaft. 2 year old engine with less than 100 hours. Missed the whole season.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by LongRange

We have a D2-75 on our 45' monohull which displaces 10.5 t dry. Most of the time the boat feels overpowered, with hull speed reached by 1550 RPM in calm conditions. The other day we motored upwind through a squall with friends who have an Oceanis 45 with a 55 HP engine. It was clear that they could not maintain the same speed, and I was thankful for the power reserve.

Knock on wood, reliability has been flawless, though I think the previous owner has replaced an MDI box.

Just out of curiosity, why is that ability to maintain full speed motoring upwind in a squall so valuable to you?

What is the price difference to the OP of a 40hp vs a 75hp engine, and weight?

[LongRange]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Just out of curiosity, why is that ability to maintain full speed motoring upwind in a squall so valuable to you?

To misquote a line from a favourite film ("Kelly's Heroes"), because we like to think we can get out of trouble quicker than we got into it

Seriously though, we bought this boat second-hand and it happened to have the upgraded engine option. If I was buying new, the naturally aspirated D2-55 would probably be my choice, for the economy and relative simplicity.

Still, nice to have the extra oomph on tap when conditions deteriorate.

(There's nothing wrong with the economy of this unit. We average just slightly less than 3 L per hour of operation.)

Originally Posted by wingssail

What is the price difference to the OP of a 40hp vs a 75hp engine, and weight?

I don't know, but I personally would not go with 40 HP in this context, because that doesn't feel conservative.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wingssail

What kind of 44' aluminum boat?

My 43' 8 ton boat is overpowered with 34HP 3JH2E, but we mostly sail anyhow.

I 've found what Yanmar parts I've ever needed, (very very damn few in 26 years) to be inexpensive if purchased through USA Yanmar dealers and shipped to my location. For instance I just bought a starter for $84.

For what kind of Yanmar does a starter cost $84?? Starter for my JH3 HTE cost £400.


Bought as a spare before our Greenland trip last year; not because the original failed (it's still going strong at 3500 hours).



I can agree that the good thing about Yanmars is that they so rarely need parts that the price of the parts isn't really all that important.


Yanmar are the only yacht engines which are built from the ground up as marine engines, with all the marinization parts part of the core design. They are good.


My 4JH3 HTE, by the way, has a factory standard mount and dual belt pulley for a second large frame alternator. Don't know if all Yanmars offer this, but mine has got it, and it's well designed.

[SofiaB]

Volvo D2-55F MDI failure at 350 hours. Replaced next day, 10 minute swap out, no charge under their recall. Second alternator factory available or generator mobile power add-on. 6.5 knots at 1800 rpm burning .7 gal per hour, 46’ Farr hull, 28k lbs. Smooth quiet engine and very economical. The D2-75 turbo option as an available upgrade but was told the simpler engine would slip her along just fine and would be less costly maintenance. Last boat had a Yanmar with no issues. If a sail drive I’d go with VP but with shaft drive I think it’s a toss-up.

[DeValency]

Well, 8 tons for 43’ cruiser is a super light boat. So by your HP/weight ratio preference, my 14 tons should be fine with 60HP, as I have suggested below. Why the Contest and Hallberg-Rassy originally installed 100HP is still a mystery...

Also from the technical point of view, diesels do better under a higher load (higher cylinders pressure and optimal combustion)

Originally Posted by wingssail

I honestly think people are overpowering their boats. I find that 34 HP is more than enough for my 43' 8 ton boat. While it will exceed 7.25 at 3200rpm I rarely run it over 2400 (6.5 knots) to conserve fuel. That's about 20 hp. I'd expect the OP's boat, and most others of similar hull shape and weight could do the same. A 15 ton boat would not need twice as much HP. I know that many members of the this forum are conservative, even boat owners in general want a bit more just to be safe, but you save cost, size, and weight with a motor that meets your needs rather than one which is virtually always much more than you need.

And I know this will seem like blasphemy, but your sails give you all the power you would ever need, so when the weather is against you and the waves are slowing your forward progress, if you have a short distance to go, OK, you run your motor and accept the slower speed. Otherwise, put up your sails and start tacking towards your destination. You'll find that the ride, sound, fuel use, everything is better, and you're SAILING!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DeValency

. . . Also from the technical point of view, diesels do better under a higher load (higher cylinders pressure and optimal combustion)

Something we talk about on here every couple of years at least.


In my opinion this is true only if the diesel is loaded so little that the cylinders aren't getting warm and starts to wet stack. In that case, more load is healthier. Otherwise, less load means less wear.

[k.weeteling]

Have 55hp Volvo (=Perkins based) in my alu Allures 44. Done 7000hours since 2009. Boat around 12 tons.
The 55 is no longer made for environmental reasons. Followed up by the 60hp. This one is with a turbo. Yhis is not animprovement in my opinon because more complicated more problems.
55hp more then enough. Think of a good propellor.
Absolutely necessary to isolate the minus.
Little problems over the years apart raw-waterpump, electronic blackbox and connections needs TLC.
Best Jacob

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by kenbo

In my opinion 50 hp will be adequate. My logic is that it is better to load the diesel adequately 95% of the time and not be able to reach hull speed 5% when wind, waves and current are foul. I had a 13t fully laden with a 43hp and I never felt under powered, but that's me.

Absolutely critical that the engine be completely isolated earth. In my experience the starter/solenoid is often overlooked.

My ol tub is alegedly 13t and I have a 4JH4-TE. I agree with your comment about keeping a reasonable load on the engine.

In fact Yanmar have a warning about prolonged light loaded operation.

In their Operating Manual they say to- bring it up to a higher power setting, a few times, every hour or so (wording to that effect). To reduce carbon deposits etc.

My take on having a bit of excess power available is, apart from capacity to beat into some slop when needed.

I have also slapped on a couple of big Alternators to help suck up some extra ponnies.

[docrn]

As a general rule I always go with the larger HP option and almost always naturally aspirated. Sailboats don’t need turbos anyway. Also I’d go Beta. I love my Yanmar but Beta parts are cheaper and easier to source imo.

[Cheechako]

In my experience the Volvo is a very high quality engine. And maybe so compared with the Yanmar. Used to install the D4 - D6 variety in power boats when I worked in the boating industry. They weigh a lot more than some diesel engines. To me that's an indicator.
But I dont know the D2 version, so it may depend on if that's a relabeled engine or a real Volvo engine.
Both Volvo and Yanmar parts are ridiculous so I would let that bother me.
The 44 foot sailboat in my avatar had a Perkins 4-108 engine (51hp?) with a max prop . It motored well and fast even in PNW currents etc. It was propped for about 2800 rpm. Used an average .65 gallon per hour over the life of the boat. That boat was a long waterline though.
Go naturally aspirated. Go for lowest HP in the biggest block. (some makers may make 3 different hp offerings in the same basic engine.) In big boats the difference is often just rated rpm.

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

We have D2-55's in our catamaran. The main problem we had was that after 8-10 years the seawater injection in the cast iron exhaust elbows gets blocked by rust. (also on D1-20 and D1-30). Then the injected water will spray everywhere in the exhaust as a mist, both down the exhaust and up to the heat exchanger/exhaust manifold casting. This salt water corroded the flange between the alloy heat exchanger/manifold and the exhaust elbow. With the flange on the alloy heat exchanger side almost completely corroding away. It started to leak, and then most of what looked like an alloy flange was actually aluminium oxide.

Then you find out that a new heat exchanger plus exhaust elbow costs about 50% of a new engine...... When I asked for a quote from my preferred (cheaper) supplier it was around 3000 euro for one set.

Luckily a local company in Thailand repaired the heat exchanger by adding welding and milling a new flange for US$200 for both heat exchangers. And then I found on ebay somebody in the USA who is makes and sells cast 316 imitation elbows! Cast 316, well made and cheaper than the originals. Why don't Volvo Penta and Yanmar install 316 elbows?


This problem is why it is recommended to do regular checks (with removal!) of your exhaust elbows.


An friend has the D2-75's on his Catana. They are the same engines as the D2-55's with an added turbo. But you never use the extra horses from the turbo. So they never turn, and then break down. Expensive......
I would never take a turbo, based on his experience.


The D2-55 has been replaced with a D2-50 and D2-60. I don't know the differences, but it seems based on the same Japanese Perkins 2.2L.


I hope to keep our D2-55's alive until electrical drives become affordable. We hardly ever use the engines except for in and out of marinas and anchorages.

[carlwk3c]

Originally Posted by yachtodyssey

Hi dear colleagues!

Maybe someone was dealing with these engines.

We want to install a Yanmar 75 on aluminum 12 ton 44 ft boat, and also thinking about Volvo D2-75 or D2-60 (perhaps rather weak). Yanmar is little bit expensive than Volvo.

Some argue that Yanmar is more economical than Volvo and its parts are cheaper. Is it so?

Cheers!

W have a Yanmar and love it. Solid, reliable, and parts readily available.
We met a couple on our way down the ICW in 2017 tgat had been stranded for over 6 months trying to get Volvo parts. After 3 months, they got the wing parts, and at 6 months they were still editing.
That’s the worst, but not the only, horror story we’ve heard. (And Volvo parts are reportedly much more expensive (if you can ever get them.)