Yanmar nozzle protector removal help.

[Captain Bill]

I have removed my injectors from one of my 3JH3CE's, but the part labeled "Nozzle Protector" in the parts diagram remained in the injector port. So far I have been unsuccessful in removing the first one. My intention is to not attempt the other two before successfully removing the first one without F-ing up the head. On the net I have found and tried using an easy out, A hook probe, and a tap. So far no luck in getting it loose at all. I have put penetrating oil down the hole and let it soak over night and retried the above. Still no Joy. The nozzle of the injector was heavily fouled with soot/carbon to I suspect the protector is as well. I suspect that my efforts have probably damaged the piece to the point of being unusable so leaving it in place is not an option any more. Does anyone have any suggestions for loosening and removing this part?



Note: I have new injectors, crush washers, and nozzle protectors.

[nuku34]

You could try spraying PB Blaster (a proprietary commercial product) or a 50/50% mix of ATF (automatic transmission fluid) and acetone down the injector hole. Before doing that, I suggest you make a tapered wooden plug to jamb into the hole in the protector. That will allow you to put about a teaspoon of one of the above liquids in the hole and it will stay there above the protector and gradually work its way down around the protector. When its time to try to remove the protector, you can poke rags down around the plug to soak up the liquid so it doesn't run down into the cylinder, when you remove the plug.



After that, you might try gently tapping on the protector using a piece of pipe that is a bit smaller in OD than the hole. Then try with easy out. I suggest NOT using a tap, they are brittle hardened steel and can snap off; the easy out is less prone to breaking.


That protector will come out; it is not a force fit into the hole. Its just badly rusted/sooted in place. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Tin Tin]

There is some stuff called Loctite LB8040 freeze and release that may work. You may have to use more spray than you think to get the part to freeze cold enough to let the fluid get in.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

There is some stuff called Loctite LB8040 freeze and release that may work. You may have to use more spray than you think to get the part to freeze cold enough to let the fluid get in.

Good idea, I actually have a can that I forgot about. Thanks

[skipperpete]

I made up a tool for doing these sleeves after trying a variety of techniques with limited success. I tried blowing them out with a hollow spindle that was a close fit in the sleeve with the piston rotated to tdc on compression and the crank held in place, that worked twice and inspired me to consider putting a solid rod into the sleeve and cranking the engine but there were so many ways for that to go wrong l shelved the idea. I tapped a thread into a couple then screwed in a bolt and drew em out with two injector pry bars under the bolt head..... the downside was that I hated getting the cuttings in the cylinder. My final solution was an attachment for an injector slide hammer, a stepped rod carefully fitted to only contact the sleeve and not the parent bore. Yanmar actually recommends leaving the sealing washer and sleeve in place and noting the cylinders so you can put a naked injector back in there. The washer generally isn’t a “crush” washer, its made of a hard metal (not copper) and is re usable.... and its designed to perfectly fit the sleeve so it doesn’t end up in the cylinder. If it all goes bad with your sleeves, its not a crisis , only takes an hour to lift off the head ... and a hundred bucks for a new head-gasket.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I have removed my injectors from one of my 3JH3CE's, but the part labeled "Nozzle Protector" in the parts diagram remained in the injector port. So far I have been unsuccessful in removing the first one. My intention is to not attempt the other two before successfully removing the first one without F-ing up the head. On the net I have found and tried using an easy out, A hook probe, and a tap. So far no luck in getting it loose at all. I have put penetrating oil down the hole and let it soak over night and retried the above. Still no Joy. The nozzle of the injector was heavily fouled with soot/carbon to I suspect the protector is as well. I suspect that my efforts have probably damaged the piece to the point of being unusable so leaving it in place is not an option any more. Does anyone have any suggestions for loosening and removing this part?



Note: I have new injectors, crush washers, and nozzle protectors.

How did you go?

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

How did you go?

I think I'm going to leave the protectors in place. I will replace the washers as I already have them and they came out easily.

[skipperpete]

If you do leave the sleeves in place, bear in mind that the sleeves go through the sealing washer when you install em so the new washers need to accommodate the bit that is still sticking up out of the nozzle bore or you’ll just push em into the combustion chamber... or worse, deform the end under the sealing washer to the point where the washer might leak combustion pressure. I do a lot of these injector removals and there’s no way I’d try and fit a new washer on a stuck sleeve, fine if the yanmar washer is still in place on the sleeve,.... not so much if you managed to get the old washer out and left the sleeve in.
The service manual is a bit vague about the sleeve/washer relationship but the parts manual makes it clearer with the sleeve on the nozzle first, then the sealing washer goes on over the sleeve and its a tight fit.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

If you do leave the sleeves in place, bear in mind that the sleeves go through the sealing washer when you install em so the new washers need to accommodate the bit that is still sticking up out of the nozzle bore or you’ll just push em into the combustion chamber... or worse, deform the end under the sealing washer to the point where the washer might leak combustion pressure. I do a lot of these injector removals and there’s no way I’d try and fit a new washer on a stuck sleeve, fine if the yanmar washer is still in place on the sleeve,.... not so much if you managed to get the old washer out and left the sleeve in.
The service manual is a bit vague about the sleeve/washer relationship but the parts manual makes it clearer with the sleeve on the nozzle first, then the sealing washer goes on over the sleeve and its a tight fit.

That's good to know. None of the sleeves came out with the washer and none of them is at the level of the top of the nozzle hole, but maybe a mm or so below the lip. I'm guessing the last guys to work on it put the sleeves in wrong so now their stuck. I cant see how they got the sleeve that far down the hole unless they put it on after the washer instead of before. Unfortunately the shop that did that is out of business, not to mention 1000 miles away. I may have to take the head off to get them out and install them properly.

[skipperpete]

Theres a very good post by “ Markxengineerin” a member of this forum …. back on 19.06.2022 with some good photo’s of the washers, sleeves and injectors on a 4JH2…. same setup with the washer and sleeve as your engine, I’d post a link but since we lost the CF app I find this difficult but if you do a search his post will come up. Good luck with your projecr

[Wotname]

^^
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3641260

[skipperpete]

Thanks Wottie.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Wotname

^^
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3641260

I had already found this thread, but it only added to the confusion. The "heat protector" resembles the "new" style injectors not the "old". I have now tested the seat/washer and protector for fit and the protector passes freely through the hole in the seat. I have the parts catalog which is also confusing. The catalog covers three versions of the engine, the 3jh3e, the 3jh3e (epa) and the 3jh3ce. It appears that the 3jh3e and 3jh3ce are pretty much the same engine but the EPA version differs in several respects. My engine plate says 3jh3e. This makes some sense since the CE version denotes the sail drive version versus the standard transmission version. My documentation says 3hj3ce. The confusion the parts catalog creates is that the clamp holding the injectors in place resemble the "EPA" illustration, not the 3jh3ce illustration. I figured that since this was a unit sold in the US that perhaps the engine was an EPA version. I ordered injectors for a 3jh3ce online and they sent me part number 729270-53100 which is, according to the parts catalog, the part for the EPA version. These did not fit as the flats area that the clamps fit on was 12mm wide and the clamp slot was only 10mm. There was also a slight difference in the nozzle. The tapered area at the top of the nozzle was 3mm long and the original only 2mm. I now have part number 729670-53100 on the way which is the part number for the 3jh3ce listing according to the parts catalog. We'll see how they fit when they get here. I can't find any part numbers on the original injectors. The nozzle protector and the seat/washer are listed as the same for all three versions of the engine.



When I bought the boat 18 years ago the engines only had 525 hours on them so I doubt the injectors had been replaced yet. Also the first time I had the injectors serviced the famous Yanmar gray paint was still intact.



The service manual only adds to the confusion. It does not show the the 3JH3E style of clamp at all(referring to the parts catalog illustration). It also does not show or mention the seat/washer. It says the "protector" is made of teflon. I can't imagine a teflon part wouldn't have been completely destroyed by what I've already done to it. The replacement protectors appear to be made out of metal. It looks like black anodized aluminum but looks can be deceiving. In my efforts to "remove" the old protector I have been using the new ones as a sizing gauge for tools that I'm using. The hole in the old protector seems to be larger than the hole in the new ones, maybe even as large as the outside diameter of the new protector. It almost seems like the new ones should fit inside of the old ones. I know a bit about teflon and know that under high enough temperatures it will just vaporize. I'm wondering if under combustion chamber temperatures a teflon protector might just disappear over time and I'm actually attempting to remove the seat for the protector machined into the cast Iron head. It would explain why nothing I've done to remove it seems to have any effect. Unfortunately I don't have any measuring device I can fit into the injector hole to measure the opening to the combustion chamber. I will confess that I've been a bit slack in my injector maintenance and gone about 2000 hrs since the last time they were serviced.



Now confused more than ever.

[skipperpete]

Yes, its certainly is confusing, Yanmar made a lot of changes between models, sometimes big changes, other times barely noticeable. I occasionally find JH series engines with no sleeves on the nozzles and plain ol copper washers on the injectors, they still run ok despite this. My only real concern is that if I don’t follow the yanmar rules I could lose a heat shield into the combustion chamber during the course of doing a compression or leakage test and IF that heat shield lodged under a valve seat on the way out, the damage could be substantial so thats why I go to a lot of trouble to extract those pesky heat shields if they’re stuck and install new ones. I had some success with tapping a thread in the sleeve but by using a thread rolling tap, not the regular cutting type that drops the chips into the cylinder but again, you need to be super careful not to drop the teflon and tap into the cylinder when that sucker starts to turn as you tap the thread into it. Good luck with your struggles..

[Lowesmarine]

Hi, I was a Yanmar dealer for 12 years. The best way that I found to remove the nozzle protector is with a large threaded coach bolt, you can hand thread the coach bolt into the protector and pull it out with out any damage to the cylinder head. Very easy. David