Yanmar Smoking and Making Oil

[Chief Engineer]

Terry,

Just got back to the office for a "parts search" for a customer when I read this...

The breather line should have air coming out of it. If you have a lot of crankcas pressure oil will leak past seals.....the same/similar thing happens when tou overfill an engine with oil....ensure that the hose is clear.....I am almost to the point where I am ready to buy a Southwest Air Ticket.......

[Cheechako]

sometimes the simple-est tests tell all. Too bad he didnt come by a couple of weeks ago... would have saved you a lot of money. Sounds to me like the Yanmar is wore out. 4000 hours is probably about it for that lightweight engine I guess. I hope you can get it rebuilt resonable, or at any rate.. dont buy a turbo! JMHO

[sigmasailor]

Strange, the breather is a simple connection between the interior of the engine (valve cover?) and the outside to get rid of any gasses blown by the rings. If it were really clogged you would see oil spurting out of your engine at both ends because of pressure building up inside the crankcase. Maybe what you saw was the crankshaft agitating the (too high?) oil?

Judging from the time you ran it (couple of hours at the most) is it possible to get that much diesel past the rings?; most of it will pass via the exhaust. Could it be there is something wrong the injection pump after all causing diesel to squirt into the crankcase directly? Diesel does tend to start coming alive (bacteria) when sitting still; maybe that caused damage with the pump.

I guess you may have at least a bad cylinder (bummer); I still find it hard to believe if the rest is OK you get so much fuel in your oil. I also find it hard to believe your engine developed this illness when sitting still. You said it ran fine without smoke before. You will know after compression testing. If your high pressure fuel pump would supply too much oil shouldn't it be possible to achieve a properly running engine (with correct turbo boost) at a lower power setting? Too little fuel would be easier to understand.

I still don't trust those repaired injectors. Standing by for more news.

[Tspringer]

Gonna be a couple of days before I do any more testing. We are 4 miles off the beach sailing south, I feel better with Jax in the wake.

The sprint cellular and 3G wireless signal is 5 bars... As good as at the marina.


Terry

[never monday]

I vote for a broken ring with the spontaneous onset of this problem.

[Maddog]

Originally Posted by never monday

I vote for a broken ring with the spontaneous onset of this problem.

Me too. It makes sense. Sudden onset of problems. I'm guessing at just one cylinder. Did you crack the nuts on the injectors while the guy was there? I think you find that the injector pump is fine, you have a bad ring on one piston and you'll be fine with an upper end rebuild that you can do right there on the boat with our ever taking the motor off its mounts.

Good luck, don't give up.

[Gene :^)]

Am I to understand... it was running fine 5 months ago. Sat unused. Now it is suddenly worn out to the point of unusable?

No blow-by from the crankcase vent, only a light flutter of air. But open the oil cap and a rush of air? So when the cap is closed, where is all this compression leakage going exactly?

If the cylinder blow-by is so great as to make the engine unusable, should we not see your crankcase vent looking like an exhaust pipe?

Some oil is splashing at 1000 rpm with the cap off? Is that really surprising? I bet it splashes more at 2000 rpm.

So this "mechanic" came out to see you and all he did was pull the oil filler cap at 1000 rpm and proclaim you need to re-power? I guess that is what you have been wanting to hear for a while. Maybe he could sense that.

I am finding this hard to believe but I suppose that is because I am not there to see with my own eyes.

Crankcase pressure can be measured properly. Tests with REAL data would be great at this point.

[Gnitfar]

A fuel injector releases atomized fuel when the injection pump supplies a timed pulse of pressure. The fuel injector only opens when the supplied fuel from the ip delivers pressure. The fuel injector in of it's self regulates pressure before it will open. Ideally, each fuel injector will open at the exact predetermined pressure. Each fuel injector can be adjusted individually, by adding or subtracting different diameter shims, hence the term "balancing" comes into play. Each of the fuel injectors should share the same value when opened in order to release and atomize the fuel.

I doubt fuel entering the crankcase, thus diluting engine oil, is from a result of the fuel injection system, unless you are cranking the hell out of the engine for weeks, and even then I would highly doubt it. We are talking about a fine mist of atomized diesel, not quarts of diesel, that are filling your crankcase. Sorry I haven't read if you have checked your lift pump for a cause, but that is where I would begin to look for diesel in the oil.

[Chief Engineer]

I'll bet the family is happy to be at sea......If you can, and somehow I know you will...relax and enjoy the sail.

[ka4wja]

Terry,
I will not muddy the waters here any further, since you've gotten a great deal of good advice already, I'll not throw more darts...

However, I do have some info that might be of help / interest.....

(I've read ever post here, and man do I feel for you!!!)
(I have the same model Yanmar, mine is an 11 year old (1999) 4JH2-HTE, but only with ~ 1500 hours....)

1) First my brief piece of info that may be helpful.....

I do NOT have any first hand experience with professional Yanmar mechanics in Palm Beach area, but I have heard good things about the guys at American Marine Tech Inc. in Palm Beach Gardens, 561-691-3388
http://www.amti-inc.com/index.html
Since reading of your troubles, and that you're heading to the Lake Worth / Palm Beach area, I thought I'd call them before recommending them to you....

I called, gave them your engine model, and asked them pointedly, "Will you guys be able to do a compression test on this engine, on-board the boat????"
They were surprised by my pointed question, and asked many questions about what work has been done already, etc.....and they took my phone number and they called me back with their answer....
Their answer was:
"No, we do not have the tool for that engine...." and before I could ask why, they went on to say, "....this engine, these smaller Yanmars, are so reliable that most boats wear out before the engine......they typically give 10,000 hours of life, or more.....so we have little use for this tool"
I stated that I understood that to mean that by the time these engines needed rebuild, that it would be obvious......and there was no objection to my statement...
They went on to state that they'd be happy to work on your engine, saying that they DO have experience with this model....and I said that I'd pass this all on to you.....

So, there's the scoop from them...


2) I've got an old family friend who is in the marine business in Stuart, FL (I believe they work on Yanmar's) and I'll try to get in touch with them tomorrow, and let you know if they can help....


3) Terry, I might've missed this, but have you contacted Mastry Engine Center in St. Pete???? @ 727-522-9471
They're the Yanmar distributor around these parts, and perhaps they'd have a compression testing tool / adapter for a 4JH2-HTE ????
And, they also may be able to recommend someone in the Palm Beach / Lake Worth area???


4) Just for reference, here's a couple other Yanmar dealers in the area...
DieselMax in Lantana, FL 561-436-5627
JAS Marine in Lake Park 561-844-3224
Plus a whole host in the Miami / Ft. Lauderdale area....


5) Please be aware, I'm NOT a professional diesel mechanic, rather just an amateur, self-taught / diesel owner / etc. who has "exceptional memory" (retains everyting they read / experience perfectly, in great detail), in addition to my years of diesel ownership and minor repairs, I've been driving and maintaining turbo-charged gasoline cars for 25 years, and I'm a young baby-boomer who spent many an evening of my youth, building street/strip/sports car/stock car (gasoline) racing engines....

So, with that preface, I'll say for the record that when I started reading of your troubles just a couple days ago, I surmized you may have multiple problems....but not sure....
Here were my original ideas / thoughts (in order of possibility):
1) Prop problems
2 and 3) Exhaust Back-Pressure problems and injector / IP problems
4) Turbo
5) Compression problems

But, now we now it's not the prop or turbo....so that leaves exhaust back-pressure and injector / injector pump issues...and secondarily possible compression issues....


Please take note, as others have posted, we here on-line do not have access to all the data needed to accurately diagnois this completely, which is why there are so many darts being thrown here....
BUT, I cannot fathom how/why "professional" mechanics that are right there in front of the engine are unable/unwilling to "troubleshoot" (test) these things.....
Heck, most of us "amateurs" here can test the exhaust back-pressure in an hour, spending < $50.....



Terry, please accept my sincere empathy with you and your troubles, and while it might not mean much now, I assure you that we are all learning a lot from this.....so, I thank you for sharing all of this!!!

And another piece of good news is that you're on your way south, with light/moderate winds.....
With a NW wind tonight.....and probably a North wind tomorrow (if you're sailing south along / near the 10 fathom line, you'll be out of the Stream and shouldn't have much of any sea), and with winds further clocking to the NE (and then East) as you make your way further south Wed night / Thurs.....you should be having a blast.....


Fair winds...
John

[Laidback]

NO more suggestions from me regarding this particular motor and its problems.
However, there is in the backround to its history a lesson.
That is to say :- the steps to be taken when laying up a marine engine for any lengthy period, be it a winter or a summer layup. In this instance close to 6 months. If prior to the layup, lets accept at face value that the engine was running as per specification - no smoke - no diesel fuel being added to lubrication oil. 6 months later the engine is malfunctioning.

Questions :-
Was the engine lay'd up in accordance with good practice for the period June to December (northern latitudes) ?
Steps :-
1. Shut the engine down after running at a low RPM for about 10 minutes.
2. Disconnect engine start battery/s
3. Drain Raw water from Heat Exchanger and water pump">Raw Water pump
4. Close Raw water sea cock - Label Sea Cock & Raw Water Pump
5. Flush Heat Exchanger and Raw water pump with fresh water, then add anti-corrosion compound to Fresh water in Heat Exchanger and Raw Water Pump.
6. Drain Fresh Water from Engine, Heat Exchanger and fresh water pipe lines.
7. Flush the engine with fresh water until it runs clear.
8. Drain fresh water second time from Engine, Heat Exchanger and fresh water pipe lines, leave all taps/valves etc open so the engine can dry out.
9. Remove impeller from Fresh Water Pump - If in good shape, dry and store in talcum powder in dark place. Label the Fresh Water pump.
----------
10. Drain diesel fuel from all filters and pipe lines.
11. Drain diesel fuel from all fuel pumps (low and high pressure)
12. Depending on the age and amount of diesel fuel in the fuel tanks -- (tanks best kept full and a biocide added for storage).
13. Check engine's lubrication oil level - if low; fill to full level.
14. Carefully remove injectors one by one, making sure that each injector
is kept together with its pressure washer. - wash them in diesel then dry and label each with its cylinder position. Store in dry place.
15. Squirt about 5ccs of light machine oil into each cylinder. Then carefully block the holes, using the injector clamps to hold the 'material' in place.
-----------------------
16.Check Transmission lubrication and hydraulic oil levels. fill if necessary.
17. Check Prop shaft rotation
18. Check Stuffy box functioning
19. Dive and bag the Propeller.
__________________________________________________ ______

Finally, Read Allan Wheeler's Diesel Hall :http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ines-9325.html
.

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by Laidback

Questions :-
Was the engine lay'd up in accordance with good practice for the period June to December (northern latitudes) ?
Additional Steps :-

8. Drain fresh water second time from Engine, Heat Exchanger and fresh water pipe lines, leave all taps/valves etc open so the engine can dry out.
Borrow someones hairdryer or better a hot air blower and insert into one of the water hoses
----------

15. Squirt about 5ccs of light machine oil into each cylinder.
Then put gearbox into neutral and with a socket wrench on the crank shaft pulley nut , turn the engine to distribute the machine oil in the cylinders.
Then carefully block the holes left by the injectors, using the injector clamps to hold the 'material' in place.

.

Any thing else ?

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

Gonna be a couple of days before I do any more testing. We are 4 miles off the beach sailing south, I feel better with Jax in the wake.

The sprint cellular and 3G wireless signal is 5 bars... As good as at the marina.


Terry

Ahoy Terry,

Good for you! Can you give us some info on your sailboat? We know a lot (in fact we don't) about your engine but nothing about the properly functioning part of your home.
Enjoy the sail.

Eric

[Tspringer]

We got into Lake Worth this morning right at slack water and are now anchored up a mile or so south of the inlet.

So the hunt for a mechanic who can do all the required tests begins. I will also call Mastry though I left a message for Doug there before and never got a call back. If I end up having to repower it will not be with a Yanmar unless I can work a deal to get some credit for the dang turbo I bought.

Compression test, leakdown test, exhaust back pressure test. Until those are definitively done and I have hard numbers there is nothing to do.

The bigger question immediatly is what can the kids do here? I am doing another post on fun in Lake Worth....

THANKS for all the help!


Terry

[bstreep]

I can't imagine not putting a Yanmar back in:

1) They ARE reliable engines. At 4000 hours, that's about 250,000 miles in an automobile installation - and you are just now having a problem with it.

2) If you repower with the same engine, you have lots of spares - or you can just buy a rebuild.