Yanmar Smoking and Making Oil

[ChuckSK]

Have you checked the exhaust back pressure? Turbos are sensitive to back pressure.
May be a muskrat.

[scraph]

Turbo boost is going to be a question of intake and exhaust restriction and fuel delivery. If you are blowing black smoke then fuel delivery is not the problem, air delivery is.

As a general rule ... more fuel than air produces black smoke on diesels. Uncombusted fuel (as in, insufficient compression or cold engine) produces white smoke.

When I read the initial posting about having the bright idea of cleaning the turbo by haphazardly spraying carb cleaner and pouring hot water in ... it made me cringe and I thought "wonder if that broke it" before I even read the rest. Do not clean turbos without performing a rebuild ... or more simply put, don't spray carb cleaner into a turbo! It's not a carb, is it? What was the intention? To make the turbine wheels look better?!

Carb cleaner damages rubbers and plastics generally. It sure would limit turbo boost if you destroyed an o-ring that helped deliver oil pressure to the journal bearings... Also, you removed years of carbon build-up (which opened up clearances) without even inspecting or performing a rebuild to verify proper clearances.

Can we all just promise not to spray carb/brake/whatever cleaner into random machines? Or, at least read the warnings on the cans...

[Tspringer]

Scraph..... For what it's worth, I agree with you and find myself asking "what the heck was I thinking". Let's hope a new turbo does the trick.

Terry

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

I have given the prop pitch and boat weight thing a lot of thought. We have clearly added weight to the boat. We added an aluminum arch with solar panels, increased battery bank, watermaker and other gear plus all our cruising stuff. But then again the boat always carried lots of gear. Still, it is possible that we have added as much as 2000lb to the boat. I doubt very seriously its that much, but as a worst case scenario that would be my worse case guess.

Would adding 2K lb to the boat cause black smoke at cruise rpm as well as max and cut maximum rpm by over 500? We are talking about an increase from roughly 35K to 37K pounds or so. Yes, 2K is a lot of weight but I have a very hard time thinking this is the root of my problem. After all, the boat carries 225 gallons of water and 100 gallons of diesel so the weight difference between full and empty tanks could be enough to throw the prop into being overpitched? I doubt it. Terry

Like I said, Terry. Dump your water tanks, and see if it makes a difference. You have 1800 lbs of water on your boat. That way it takes the prop out of the equation.

[Tspringer]

Now the problem is simply GETTING a turbo.... Apparently the Yanmar people really do not know what part number or actual turbo to ship or if they even have one or if it is actually even available. The unit on the boat has a data plate but it cannot be read. The shop manual says one part number, Yanmar has another and some sources they have list several. At this point nobody seems to know what turbo we need.

This is fun!


Terry

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

Now the problem is simply GETTING a turbo.... Apparently the Yanmar people really do not know what part number or actual turbo to ship or if they even have one or if it is actually even available. The unit on the boat has a data plate but it cannot be read. The shop manual says one part number, Yanmar has another and some sources they have list several. At this point nobody seems to know what turbo we need.

This is fun!


Terry

Wow, I just blew through this thread. I am SO sorry for you and your family. But look on the bright side (there always is one), you will know more about your engine than just about anyone else, and as you go forward with your cruise, that will count for a lot on more than one occasion.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

1. DON'T let this be a cruise killer, or even a week killer. Anchor the boat somewhere close and enjoy the spot where you are. Do you have a generator, or some other way to charge your batteries? If so, you really don't need to sit in the marina paying daily transient rates because someone is trying to fix your engine. Remember, cruising is fixing your boat in EXOTIC places. Find someplace fun for the family while you deal with this.

2. Related to No. 1, you don't necessarily need to be right where you are. I can't remember the town you are in, but you always can take the boat to some better harbor that you and the fam would want to see anyway, and make arrangements with a mechanic there to install the turbo (just have it shipped to the right spot). Yanmars are all over the place, and there are certified mechanics everywhere.

3. Very much a long shot, but is there a boat somewhere in your area that has the same turbo? Offer the guy dinner in the nicest spot around if your mechanic can "borrow" his turbo, just so you can run your engine for 15 minutes with it to see if that in fact is the problem (like I said, long shot that you find someone, and likely a longer shot that they'll let you take their engine apart, but you never know, cruisers truly are generous sorts).

4. You might want to give Larry Berlin a call (if you haven't already). He's at Mack Boring in New Jersey, and generally considered one of the most knowledgeable people on the planet about Yanmars. He can be a bit gruff, and he likely will "yell" at you for cleaning the turbo the way you did, but if you can get past that he very likely will be able to point you in the right direction. At minimum, he probably can send you to the right person in your area.

Good luck, and please be sure to post when you get it sorted! It'll make for a great chapter in that book you'll write when you get back from your cruise!

[Laidback]

Terry,
I understand that your engine is the Yanmar 4JH2-HTE ?

My full service manual for this engine states that your Turbo is made by the ISHIKAWA - HARIMI HEAVY INDUSTRIAL CO. LTD (IHI) - their model # for this Engine is the IHI RHB52 ( 2 versions :- plus letters HW for water cooled) .

The Yanmar Model Number for this Turbo is :-
(if you need any other info from the manual - give a shout !)

[Tspringer]

Thanks Laidback, I do have the manual and had the same numbers as you. The issue was with Yanmar who came back saying that was incorrect and that there were 2 different turbos used on the 4JH2-HTE and the one we needed was unavailable. They however changed their mind (???) and I have what they say is the only turbo in the country on its way to me. Hopefully I will have it installed and the engine running great by tomorrow night and we can get south on Wednesday. The raping of our savings is ugly but hopefully we will forget about that when we get to the Bahamas!


Terry

[Laidback]

Terry, all the best wishes for the instal process !!

What I find discouraging is the poor quality of service that runs throughout the marine industry. Especially from the large companies supplying vital replacement parts or components. Your saga is replicated right across the board, where personnel do not know their jobs or their products. Not being able to read their parts catalogues is a common feature. It is a reflection of allowing beancounters a say in employing good staff.

[Chief Engineer]

The fact of the matter is distributors do not stock parts inventories like they used to......

One of my parts suppliers had to go aroung the country to put together a rebuild kit for a couple engines this past year.

In the case of the turbo....every Yanmar Dealer is probably looking for the same ONE turbo.

I had this happen with a Hino Diesel a few years back.....took six weeks to get one shipped from the Land of The Rising Sun.....That was 1/2 a summer.

Finally...as a Mechanic Note....when you run your engine, give it a little time to warm up and more imprtantly...after a long run give it a few minutes of no load running at the dock.....they don't take well to immediate shutdown after a long run.....the lube oil acts as a coolant to dissipate the heat.

Keep in touch.

Originally Posted by Laidback

Terry, all the best wishes for the instal process !!

What I find discouraging is the poor quality of service that runs throughout the marine industry. Especially from the large companies supplying vital replacement parts or components. Your saga is replicated right across the board, where personnel do not know their jobs or their products. Not being able to read their parts catalogues is a common feature. It is a reflection of allowing beancounters a say in employing good staff.

[Cheechako]

no one really answered my earlier question.... I did it once on a gas automobile... is it too complicated on a diesel? too many parts? How much less HP is the naturally aspirated version of that block? probably a wacky thought but.....?

[Gene :^)]

The fuel injection is set up to deliver too much fuel for running without the turbo.

To remove the turbo permanently would require the fuel injection be re-tuned and possibly smaller injectors.

HP would take a major cut.

Otherwise there is no problem. Adding a turbo usually requires more piston cooling via oil flow. But removing a turbo is ok.

[Highlander40]

I agree that the turbo looks like the culprit but before the next trial, be sure that the exaust hose is clear, no kinks or internal damage, plugging etc. That exaust hose is expensive (I know, my Yanmars are 420 hp, BIG hose) but way cheaper than a turbo or even repeated hauling.

Good luck and happy cruising!

[Captain Bill]

I find it interesting that one of the arguements for buying Yanmar is that they are available and parts are available anywhere. My Actual experience is just the opposite and now it looks like Terry's experience is like mine. I my case I was looking for prop shaft seals. A common part on a saildrive that is supposed to be replaced every couple of years. When I had one go bad there were none to be had in the whole US. I had to have them Fedexed overnight from the UK. That or wait 3 weeks in the yard while the US distributers waited 3 weeks for them to be shipped from Japan. The local mechanic was happy to wait ( he wasn't paying the yard fees) so I took the matter into my own hands. Apparently Yanmar mechanics don't understand the concept of a global economy and the internet. Terry, If the locals cannot come up with one get on the internet. After the exchange rate the price was almost eactly the same as what I would have paid in the US.

[Tspringer]

I got the new turbo, it was overnighted from Chicago. It was EXPENSIVE.

I am in the process of removing the old turbo and I have the air cleaner off and the exhaust elbow off. The turbine blades are clearly much cleaner than the last time I inspected them, the turbo wash procedure the dealer did clearly worked well in that regard.

The turbine blades in my old turbo spin freely pretty much exactly like the blades in the new turbo. Also, the amount of side to side play one can feel on the turbo shaft seems to be about the same on the new turbo and my old one. The new one sure looks shiny and new.... but as far as apparent operation at rest I really cannot tell much if any difference.

I imagine that operation at 75K rpm could be a very different thing but at this moment I am seriously questioning if the turbo really is my problem.

Oh well.... I am wrestling off the old one ( a serious pain) and will get the new one on and see how she runs. My guess is that I will have the exact same symptoms and will be looking at the next money dart. We are well over $3K now.



Terry