Add keels?

[stimpsonjcat]

Hello...n00b here.

I am working on a 10 year plan to be out and sailing in the world.

I will post a thread in meet and greets about that plan, but for this post I am asking a question about adding keels to an existing boat.

For instance, and very relevant to my plans, the infamous Morgan out island design has a very shallow keel. It also, infamously, doesn't go any where near into the wind.

Based on my remedial physics, these are related.

So, I am further positing that as the OI rolls to one side or the other, the already shallow keel has even less effect, and this brings me to my questions.

1-is it possible to add keel depth with a bolt on keel?
2-would adding additional keels on either side of the existing keel be more effective?
3-wing keel addition?
4-lipstick on a pig?

I am asking as the 415 OI cabin plan ticks a lot of my needs off AND it is perfect for my goal of doing the great loop with the wife as a sort of 'gateway drug' before trying to drag her out into the blue.

TIA!

[boatman61]

You could always do what they do in the UK.. fit bilge plates.
Advantages are roll inhibitor and they can dry out at low water for work below the waterline.. also don't need all that chocking up on the hard.

[Polux]

For adding keels or even increase the draft or add ballast to the one you have you have to better the boat structure for the bigger efforts, that means an expensive job that should be made with technical supervision.

Not a good idea.

[Cheechako]

You may be overthinking this. Many OI have cruised long distances. A fully loaded cruising boat doesnt really go to weather that good anyway. My Passport 47 was down on the waterline 5" when loaded. I thought I was being careful about loading too! It was 6-5 draft prior to loading. It still was not a witch to weather. Sailors avoid going to weather in planning. "A gentleman never sails to weather". Of course it's all about you and the type of sailor you are. An ex racer that insists on a wet pounding to weather, pointing high will not be happy with most cruising type boats. But most cruisers just want to get from point A to Point B in comfort.
In the end, an encapsulated keel like the OI or many other cruisers will not be easy to change.

[goat]

Go for a ride on one. Might not be as bad as you've been told.

[a64pilot]

A if not the great advantage of a Morgan OI is its shallow draft, you don’t want to mess with that.
This endeavor is almost certainly going to cost way more in both time and money than you think, and if anything will likely reduce the value of the boat.
Your not doing a lot of sailing on the great loop anyway, and likely there is a whole lot more to improving windward capability than bolting on a deeper keel.

[stimpsonjcat]

First of all thanks to all and I am happy to have found such an active forum!

Originally Posted by boatman61

You could always do what they do in the UK.. fit bilge plates.
Advantages are roll inhibitor and they can dry out at low water for work below the waterline.. also don't need all that chocking up on the hard.

I like that idea. It could easily be done as a bolted on cradle, which would distribute the load better. My 415 is going to be a complete refit anyway, so not opposed to some extra strengthening inside and out to arrange this. I already plan to improve the bulkheads if possible.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You may be overthinking this. Many OI have cruised long distances. A fully loaded cruising boat doesnt really go to weather that good anyway. My Passport 47 was down on the waterline 5" when loaded. I thought I was being careful about loading too! It was 6-5 draft prior to loading. It still was not a witch to weather. Sailors avoid going to weather in planning. "A gentleman never sails to weather". Of course it's all about you and the type of sailor you are. An ex racer that insists on a wet pounding to weather, pointing high will not be happy with most cruising type boats. But most cruisers just want to get from point A to Point B in comfort.
In the end, an encapsulated keel like the OI or many other cruisers will not be easy to change.

I overthink all of my projects until I start them. I have to, I am an engineer. And yes, you're right, any sailing to weather gets ugly looks from the women, if nothing else goes wrong.

Originally Posted by goat

Go for a ride on one. Might not be as bad as you've been told.

Oh yes, that will happen long before a purchase is made.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A if not the great advantage of a Morgan OI is its shallow draft, you don’t want to mess with that.
This endeavor is almost certainly going to cost way more in both time and money than you think, and if anything will likely reduce the value of the boat.
Your not doing a lot of sailing on the great loop anyway, and likely there is a whole lot more to improving windward capability than bolting on a deeper keel.

Totally understood. and on the loop I agree. The issue I am struggling with is whether I can find a way to go blue water cruising on the OI after the loop or if I should upgrade to a true blue water boat for that. Initially our intent is to go from the loop to the Caribbean and then up to Ireland and England, then coastal Europe and eastern Med before coming back to the States.

Being able to dry out with the full keel contact is an advantage in my mind. Heck, we are likely to end up in a drying harbor more than a few times way up north. Of course the bilge keel idea doesn't affect that ability, and might arguably improve it.


For now I have no die-hard intentions to mess with the boat other than the re-fit (and maybe some bulkhead improvement). I was just wondering if this sort of thing was ever done. It appears it is pretty uncommon.

[hpeer]

One Engineer to another, we love to “fix” problems.

As a Project Manager I learned to not fix that which is not broke.

Get the OI. Cruise. Live. Enjoy.

THEN if the shallow keel becomes a problem you can assess the proper corrective action
1-Modify the keel
2-Buy a different boat, the one you want NOW that you have EXPERIENCE
3-Find she hates living on a boat so trade up to a land cruiser
4-You May die first, squeez the orange NOW.

[Cheechako]

Yeah, I'm an engineer too. I did see this done once to a trawler, If you do a good job of fairing it could look fine. Bulb keel. The Zinc ingots are maybe a foot long x 4 x 6. so if you put 8 on each side, that's 16 x 44# or 700 lbs down low!:

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by hpeer

One Engineer to another, we love to “fix” problems.

As a Project Manager I learned to not fix that which is not broke.

Get the OI. Cruise. Live. Enjoy.

THEN if the shallow keel becomes a problem you can assess the proper corrective action
1-Modify the keel
2-Buy a different boat, the one you want NOW that you have EXPERIENCE
3-Find she hates living on a boat so trade up to a land cruiser
4-You May die first, squeez the orange NOW.

I have "fixed" way too many boats in my life! I should have been sailing.