Adding copper powder to antifouling

[s/v Jedi]

I do agree that we as a community could formulate a decent anti-fouling ourselves and save significantly on cost of the product. This is clearly an area where much improvement is possible when you see a product like ABC3 performing very well and being suppressed on the market…. while it only costs half the price of what all the chandler’s haveon the shelf.

[chrisr]

i have added round up concentrate (1L to 10L) and found a definite improvement...

cheers,

[valhalla360]

Powdered lead is more effective. Illegal but more effective.

I suspect home brewing copper antifouling may be illegal also but if you want to kill brain cells...

As far as chemists, I believe the bigger issue is govt regulations. If you play within the regulations, yeah, you probably aren't going to come up with something better.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Powdered lead is more effective. Illegal but more effective.

I suspect home brewing copper antifouling may be illegal also but if you want to kill brain cells...

As far as chemists, I believe the bigger issue is govt regulations. If you play within the regulations, yeah, you probably aren't going to come up with something better.

How would that be different from buying it, then stirring for half an hour and rolling it on. You’re gonna get exposure, for which you can use PPE.

Unless of course you don’t do the work yourself, in which case my post wasn’t for you

And I don’t think mixing paint is illegal. Adding substances that are not allowed is illegal but I was not calling for that so why would you insinuate that? A paint like ABC3 is legal, why not copy that?

[tamicatana]

Looks like ABC3 is copper with a very little bit of lead:

https://www.englundmarine.com/SDS/AMR-ABC3R5G.pdf

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I suspect home brewing copper antifouling may be illegal...

As a hull cleaning professional, I have researched this subject a little bit. As a rule of thumb in the U.S., if (as a private citizen) you can legally buy the substance, you can put it in your anti fouling paint. Capsaicin, Roundup, ground-up pennies, whatever. Knock yourself out. But that doesn't mean you can put it in your anti fouling paint and then sell it. It also doesn't mean that it will be effective. I get a laugh out of kitchen sink chemists trying to reinvent the wheel.

[blancosail]

Hi to all!

Thanks for your answers!! I´ll think as well about the lead!

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

It was my experience the squirrels got used to the taste, but maybe because it was in Mississippi/Louisiana, ha ha

Same here. As a joke, we put out a small bowl with some salsa, and they licked it dry. (Virginia)

[old pirate]

Years ago I remember a fellow cruiser adding something (copper ?) to his anti fowl paint at Powerboats Trinidad. Even then the 2 litre tin cost $200. As he stirred it in the paint solution got thicker and thicker ! After about 5 minutes he could stir no more as it had turned to jelly and then became solid.
I don’t remember anyone else trying anything after that !

[Capt Clark]

It’s always been my experience that the paint with the most copper lasts the longest. YMMV

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

How would that be different from buying it, then stirring for half an hour and rolling it on. You’re gonna get exposure, for which you can use PPE.

Unless of course you don’t do the work yourself, in which case my post wasn’t for you

And I don’t think mixing paint is illegal. Adding substances that are not allowed is illegal but I was not calling for that so why would you insinuate that? A paint like ABC3 is legal, why not copy that?

In powdered form, it's much easier for it be breathed in, even with a mask on.

I believe in some locations, they are limiting the amount of copper that can be included, so if you purposely add more, that would likely be illegal...though I doubt the copper police will be surveilling you home brew experiments.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I believe in some locations, they are limiting the amount of copper that can be included, so if you purposely add more, that would likely be illegal...

Really? Which locations do you believe have these laws for paint that is mixed for use by yourself? Aren’t you confusing this with laws around paint that is being sold commercially?

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Capt Clark

It’s always been my experience that the paint with the most copper lasts the longest. YMMV

Right. And the copper content in commercial products has been going down for years.

I agree that professionals at the paint company know more than I. But they also know a lot more than politicians, pundits and marketing experts, who are pushing them to develop "green" products which don't harm any organisms.

Of course the whole point of bottom paint is to harm or deter organisms.

So, while the chemists work their magic to develop a product they can sell as bottom paint, we boaters want one which actually works as bottom paint.

We're left to figure out on our own how best to overcome the lack of all that copper the "experts" took out of our formerly-effective bottom paint.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by chrisr

i have added round up concentrate (1L to 10L) and found a definite improvement...

I hate to break it to ya, but Roundup doesn't work as a biocide in anti fouling paint. It just doesn't (regardless of what you think your results were), and I'll tell you why:

Roundup is a systemic herbicide that is designed to be absorbed by the leaf tissue of the target weed and translocated throughout the plant, inhibiting photosynthesis. Once the roundup is bound up in the paint, there will be no way for it to enter the plant. Further, it becomes inert about four hours after application. On top of that, even if there were a way for the Roundup to be leached out of the paint and into the water (there is not), it would immediately be diluted to the point of uselessness.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Right. And the copper content in commercial products has been going down for years.

We're left to figure out on our own how best to overcome the lack of all that copper the "experts" took out of our formerly-effective bottom paint.

Do modern anti fouling paints frequently have less copper biocide than products marketed years ago? Yes. Does that mean that modern anti fouling paints are less effective products? No.

Under pressure from governmental regulation, paint manufacturers have developed methods methods of processing copper so that less of it can still do an effective job of retarding fouling growth. How do I know this? I know this because I clean anti fouling paints in the water every day, and have done for over 28 years. So I have decades of real world experience and based on that, I can tell you that the best, most effective paints I have ever come across are some of the ones I encounter now, not 28 years ago.