Adding deadlights to a Kelly Peterson 44

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Gilow, I am glad to hear you removed all that dark teak. It looks like you have a big project ahead of you......... Can you get a 1200mm wide sheet of plywood down below?

Cheers

Plywood? Why would I use plywood?

A 1200 mm sheet of PVC honeycomb panel, now that's a different story.

I just cut a letterbox slot across the main companionway, about 300 mm either side. Easy to glass up later.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by MJH

Seems like you should have thought about that before you bought the boat.

I'm not one who desires to make wholesale changes to an original design. Besides, I don't particularly like these rectangular topsides deadlights I see on the new production boats...it just breaks up the lines of the boat. Then there is the possibility of leaks. And the thought of all the work and expense just because I can't see lying down? No, not me.

But it seems important to you. Maybe you should have bought the Sun Odyssey.

Hmmm.... let's see...

Kelly Peterson 44 - about AU$50 K. Centre cockpit, 3/4 encapsulated keel, skeg hung rudder with "Brewer bite., 13 tons. No portlights on hull topsides.

Sun Oddball 440 - about AU$570 K, aft cockpit, fin keel and spade rudder, a shade under 9 tons. Two portlights on the hull topsides.

You are right. Practically no difference at all, I should have bought the Sun.

Numpty.

[Fore and Aft]

Wow Gilow that's a bit snappy. I think the point MJH is making is that you can buy a decent older production yacht for a 100-200g. I surveyed that yacht below and she is pretty good for the price, topside portholes, bolt on keel and all.
Good to hear that you have cut a slot. I once surveyed a big home built steely where the owner was to stubborn to cut a slot for the plywood sheets. So everything was 900mm wide max. Talk about make life hard for yourself. No surprise that in the end he sold the yacht unfinished.
Cheers

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...ende-41/276995

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Wow Gilow that's a bit snappy. I think the point MJH is making is that you can buy a decent older production yacht for a 100-200g. I surveyed that yacht below and she is pretty good for the price, topside portholes, bolt on keel and all.

Good to hear that you have cut a slot. I once surveyed a big home built steely where the owner was to stubborn to cut a slot for the plywood sheets. So everything was 900mm wide max. Talk about make life hard for yourself. No surprise that in the end he sold the yacht unfinished.

Cheers



https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...ende-41/276995

Aside from price, there are certain non negotiables for me. When I sat down with friends and started planning the next boat I wanted three things. Everything else was negotiable but these were not.

Centre cockpit.
Cutter rigged.
Encapsulated keel with skeg hung rudder.

(And, of course, a good reputation for hull, sailing characteristics etc.)

These preferences are based on just 10 years of sailing big boats, but over 40 years of sailing altogether.

We came up with three in my budget, from all the boats in the world. The KP44 was one of them.

I've got a very good feeling about this boat. I think the next 20 years are going to be a truckload of fun. Even the fitout, which is steaming ahead. (Tho cutting the slot felt very crude at the time.)

Not interested in stuff like the Sun. No doubt they are great boats, but they leave me cold. Each to our own I guess.

[Kd9truck]

[QUOTE=GILow;3621509]Hmmm.... let's see...

Kelly Peterson 44 - about AU$50 K. Centre cockpit, 3/4 encapsulated keel, skeg hung rudder with "Brewer bite., 13 tons. No portlights on hull topsides.

Sun Oddball 440 - about AU$570 K, aft cockpit, fin keel and spade rudder, a shade under 9 tons. Two portlights on the hull topsides.

You are right. Practically no difference at all, I should have bought the Sun.



You don’t have to buy one new mate (Jeanneau SO), you didn’t buy the KP44 new, and by the looks of it you just wanted the things that sail not the things for staying still. I know this is heavy but even the individuals who get hard earned degrees in specialized fields (navel architecture) make mistakes. There have been books written about vessels that have had alterations that have been the subject of unintended consequences.
This is the nexus of your question to CFn no? there is a shadow of doubt OR you were just looking for a way to post a picture of that lovely “crime scene “ pic of your project post demo, pre clean up mode 😜.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

You don’t have to buy one new mate (Jeanneau SO), you didn’t buy the KP44 new, and by the looks of it you just wanted the things that sail not the things for staying still. I know this is heavy but even the individuals who get hard earned degrees in specialized fields (navel architecture) make mistakes. There have been books written about vessels that have had alterations that have been the subject of unintended consequences.

This is the nexus of your question to CFn no? there is a shadow of doubt OR you were just looking for a way to post a picture of that lovely “crime scene “ pic of your project post demo, pre clean up mode [emoji12].

Yep, definitely a shadow of doubt.

That’s why I posted the question here. A place where there a number of regulars with plenty of relevant experience.

A modification like this is not something to be taken lightly, but I have actually seen one KP44 (or 46, not sure which) where they’d added two deadlights to the transom. Now THAT felt risky to me, although so far the boat is still floating and the mast hasn’t fallen off. (That rear chain plate no longer has a lot of boat around it.)

For the record, dad is a naval architect so the concepts involved are the subject of the odd discussion between us. But his knowledge is dated now so I like to cast the net further afield.

As for the Sun… yes, you read me right, the things that are important to me are about how the boat sails, not how it sits at a marina. Though I have learned recently that, to me, how the boat sits at anchor is nearly as important as how it sails.

Crime scene photo? The real crime scene photos are the state of the boat when I bought it. Some people should not be allowed to own boats.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yep, definitely a shadow of doubt.

That’s why I posted the question here. A place where there a number of regulars with plenty of relevant experience.

A modification like this is not something to be taken lightly, but I have actually seen one KP44 (or 46, not sure which) where they’d added two deadlights to the transom. Now THAT felt risky to me, although so far the boat is still floating and the mast hasn’t fallen off. (That rear chain plate no longer has a lot of boat around it.)

For the record, dad is a naval architect so the concepts involved are the subject of the odd discussion between us. But his knowledge is dated now so I like to cast the net further afield.

As for the Sun… yes, you read me right, the things that are important to me are about how the boat sails, not how it sits at a marina. Though I have learned recently that, to me, how the boat sits at anchor is nearly as important as how it sails.

Crime scene photo? The real crime scene photos are the state of the boat when I bought it. Some people should not be allowed to own boats.

Forgive the jape, it was just for color, I applaud the project ( full gut and rebuild to your specs) , I was on the hunt for a vessel with size and speed and the space to entertain. I found my SO in a bad state at 8 years old, from yet another owner who neglected it out of ignorance. I got it for a steal. It’s a “performance” version and that not just a name, the hull and rigging are built to a higher standard.
I would look at the types of load failures and see if they apply (dead, horizontal, sheer, impact, etc.) I studied these a mechanisms for collapse associated in building construction as it relates to firefighting.

Good on ya mate!

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Forgive the jape, it was just for color, I applaud the project ( full gut and rebuild to your specs) , I was on the hunt for a vessel with size and speed and the space to entertain. I found my SO in a bad state at 8 years old, from yet another owner who neglected it out of ignorance. I got it for a steal. It’s a “performance” version and that not just a name, the hull and rigging are built to a higher standard.

I would look at the types of load failures and see if they apply (dead, horizontal, sheer, impact, etc.) I studied these a mechanisms for collapse associated in building construction as it relates to firefighting.



Good on ya mate!

No offence taken. I liked the “crime scene” comparison.

I am regretting mentioning the Sun though. Since practically every modern boat around me has the same windows the reference was kind of redundant.

[Don C L]

Well, I am on the side of yes, research it. Have you checked with KP44 owners groups? Perhaps they might have some info on the hull where you want the lights, but I suspect you'd be ok wherever you want them (within reason.) Just be super careful when approaching pilings!

My little boat has huge lights and I love 'em. I don't imagine you are planning big ones though. You are thinking of something similar in size to the ones on the cabin, yes?

It's been a long time but I don't recall where you could put them given the cabinetry, but it looks like you are changing all that.

Didn't the KP44 come in a pilot house version?
Maybe I am thinking of something else...

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, I am on the side of yes, research it. Have you checked with KP44 owners groups? Perhaps they might have some info on the hull where you want the lights, but I suspect you'd be ok wherever you want them (within reason.) Just be super careful when approaching pilings!



My little boat has huge lights and I love 'em. I don't imagine you are planning big ones though. You are thinking of something similar in size to the ones on the cabin, yes?



It's been a long time but I don't recall where you could put them given the cabinetry, but it looks like you are changing all that.



Didn't the KP44 come in a pilot house version?[emoji3]

Maybe I am thinking of something else...

I will check with the KP group, it's pretty active. But I have to be careful because I suspect I am committing KP sacrilege with everything that I am doing. I may get excommunicated.

I don't know of a pilothouse version, but there were many knock-offs and one may well have featured a pilot house. That would have been VERY nice too. You've got me thinking.

Size would be as much about making it look right as anything. Bigger would be nicer of course. Do you any photos of yours handy?

And no cabinetry to work around. All gone, just the way I like it. So much more space that way.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GILow

I will check with the KP group, it's pretty active...

The KELLY-PETERSON/Formosa Owners Group also has one of the web’s best library of links to manuals etc:
Home ➥ https://www.kp44.org/

EXTENSIVE Documents ➥ https://www.kp44.org/toc.htm

[GILow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The KELLY-PETERSON/Formosa Owners Group also has one of the web’s best library of links to manuals etc:
Home ➥ https://www.kp44.org/

EXTENSIVE Documents ➥ https://www.kp44.org/toc.htm

The guy who runs the page is currently sailing around Tasmania and making me very envious.

He has shared some very valuable information on standing rigging, sail plans, running rigging and even winch loads.

Sadly he says nothing about hacking great big holes in the side of the boat. A bit of an oversight that.

[Bill O]

Matt,
Maybe I missed it, but don't believe you ever stated what size or shape of DL you were proposing to add.
Would think a 15-20cm round, maybe the most structurally sound and add enough light/view. On the downside, round DLs in the hull look like eyes and to me are not always the most aesthetically pleasing when you do a far look at the hull.
Will say that I've never seen any cracks in the corners of our relatively large rectangular DLs, but our f/g layup is heavier than yours. At the top of our bulwarks the glass is 1" (~2.5cm) thick and much thicker at the DLs.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Matt,
Maybe I missed it, but don't believe you ever stated what size or shape of DL you were proposing to add.
Would think a 15-20cm round, maybe the most structurally sound and add enough light/view. On the downside, round DLs in the hull look like eyes and to me are not always the most aesthetically pleasing when you do a far look at the hull.
Will say that I've never seen any cracks in the corners of our relatively large rectangular DLs, but our f/g layup is heavier than yours. At the top of our bulwarks the glass is 1" (~2.5cm) thick and much thicker at the DLs.

I’d try to mimic the opening portlights on the cabin trunk. So rectangular with rounded corners.

Size is best determined using cardboard mock-ups to see what looks best. I’d bet they come in around about 400 mm wide and 120 mm high, or something around that.

The KP44 is supposed to be 3/4” thick on the topsides. So a bit of strength to play with.

At least 10 mm thick Perspex or something similar, that’s a whole other decision.

I’d be inclined to have a matching pair of stainless steel surrounds cut for each deadlight and use those to sandwich the Perspex in place. Maybe just a few mm rebated on the outside. Again, a bit of trial and error with appearances.

[malbert73]

I’d do it if I were you. You’ve gutted the hull so can easily glass in stringers and reinforcement around the proposed port lights. And make sure they are fully framed, window recessed, throughbolted ports- none of the “huge glued on acrylic” like car windshields that you see on some newer boats.

I think aside from aesthetics- it’s really nice to be able to see outside and let in more light. Part of me wishes my boat had some

Speaking of SO, some friends of ours chartered a nearly new 440 last summer to buddyboat with us.

One of their hull windows was recently replaced by black painted plywood by the charter company due to a docking mishap on a prior charter. It was a temporary fix to keep it in charter during busy season. I think the size and nearly flush aspect is asking for trouble. What if the hull flexes and it pops out while offshore?