Advice needed : glassing the deck after teak removal

[JBP]

You can get 1208 instead of 1708 if you don't want as much build. It's the same thing except 12oz instead of 17oz biaxial stitched to 8oz mat.
Doing it as one large piece avoids joints but can be difficult to manage. I'd do sections no larger than I could reach across and try to get the seams in less noticeable places. You can alway fix seams with fairing but you will lose some strength.

[psk125]

If the foredeck core is solid and dry but the deck still flexes you might be able to install a crossbeam underneath it to provide more support. Reducing headroom below would be the concern, but if it can be placed far enough forward to avoid that it might help the deck.

[JBP]

How thick are the top and bottom skins? If the deck is bouncy like a trampoline and there are no core problems, I've found that adding extra glass will indeed make a significant difference in stiffness. In your case, you have to do the top anyway, so do that and see how much stiffer it is. Then you can decide if you want to do more on top or underneath.

[wrwakefield]

You have received good advice here.

Have you considered also soliciting an opinion from the original designer Bob Perry RE: foredeck flex? (e.g., Is it inherent in some of the design builds- not likely- or at what measured flexure should it be addressed, and how?)

I have previously owned and cruised two of his designs, and can share he is very engaged, objective, and candid if approached. (Bob is currently very active on his FB page. Unfortunately, his candor got him exiled from this forum...)

Best wishes with your project.

Cheers, Bill

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by ttex

I just got on my hands and knees and started digging out core until it wasn't rotten anymore. Then I filled in the hole with thickened epoxy. If the hole was big enough I put wood in as a filler. There was only one spot that big though. Most of my issues were around the chain plates. As far as I can tell the entire cabin wall is hollow. That is the wall where the portlights are. I dug out the rotten core and left it hollow.
After that I sanded it all down smooth.

This sounds very good. I would just sound the deck thorughly, if you haven't already, then just spot repair the areas you had to deal with using maybe a Vinylester resin and what ever weight of glass that won't over build up the area. Vinylester has better adhesion and is compatable with epoxy. Then I would use either Gelcoat with cabosil or LPU and cabosil and stipple roll a non-skid over the top of it all.

Originally Posted by psk125

If the foredeck core is solid and dry but the deck still flexes you might be able to install a crossbeam underneath it to provide more support. Reducing headroom below would be the concern, but if it can be placed far enough forward to avoid that it might help the deck.

Yes, this is what I recommended ealier, a laminated under beam. It would only have to be 2"s thick with 8, 1/4" lams. Much like a tiller is made.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

I'd be amazed there is no damage below. You may or may not have fixed everything. Rot is insidious.

You've gotten ggod advice so fr. Another vote for 1708.

Poly/Vinyl or epoxy. Epoxy more expensive. Epoxy is an exact measurement of hardner to resin. Poly you can adjust the catalyst to the temps you're working on. If you are at 60 degrees and below, do not use poly. It will get hard but never cure. This info comes from the manufacturer. Epoxy is exothermic. I've put it on in freezing temps. It will cure but will take weeks.

As far as putting either system on. Get a huge piece of cardboard. Wet the cardboard a bit then put the fg on it and roll out the resin. Flip the piece over and make sure you have no dry spots. Normally you fold said fg in thirds and go lay it down. On large pieces I've rolled it then unrolled it. Mke sure you start with the finish side down. Wet it out then flip so finish side is up. Finish wet out. If you roll or fold it you'll have the mat side down when laying it on.

I use the west systems rollers. They work with epoxy amazingly well and I find my wetouts are much better, more thorough and I use less material.

I question previous post saying vinylesther is almost as strong as epoxy. I'd have to see solid decimation on that.

https://expresscomposites.com/wp-con...-hydrex100.pdf

https://www.westsystem.com/products/...al-properties/

Vinyl is not as strong as epoxy but it's close. Vinylester is an epoxy modified resin so the molecule is very similar. Or that's the way the guy that made the stuff told me. My Dad was the senior VP for Reichold Chemicals and literally designed the plants that make their resins.

A sheet of visqueen will work for wet out and you won't contaminate the resin with whatever wax or oils are in the cardboard. You can also use plastic sheet to air entrain the resin to let it harden instead of adding wax. You do not need to gel coat vinyl resin. You can go straight to paint or nonskid like kiwigrip if that's what you want to use.

On a deck I would lay the cloth out, fold half over, wet deck and laminate, fold laminate over, wet out, repeat for other side. Depends on the cloth but 1708 and CSM all wet out easily.

I have had good luck weighing laminate cloth and resin and going 50/50. Wet out with bubble buster and or squeegee.

if the OP started with Epoxy I'd be tempted to finish with that.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

.

if the OP started with Epoxy I'd be tempted to finish with that.

That is why I also suggested Vinylester was it's ability to bond to epoxy where Poly ester will not. Then non skid over that. The gelcoat cabosil nonskid is near identical to Kiwi grip. Is way cheaper and IMHO looks more uniform. I personally use LPU and cabosil for a more rubber type and extremely durable non skid.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

That is why I also suggested Vinylester was it's ability to bond to epoxy where Poly ester will not. Then non skid over that. The gelcoat cabosil nonskid is near identical to Kiwi grip. Is way cheaper and IMHO looks more uniform. I personally use LPU and cabosil for a more rubber type and extremely durable non skid.

Sounds like a plan. Gentle reader might note adding cabosil can make any sanding...difficult. The OP probably still has epoxy which unlike poly or vinyl has a much, much longer shelf life so may as well use what he's already got. Beware the amine blush though with epoxies unless you use peel ply.

The shelf life in Houston of vinyl resin will be limited. Even more so for gelcoats. I've had my supplied leave the cobalt on the side in the gelcoat to slow the dry time down. Hard to spray gel coat in 98*F and not have it kick in under 5 minutes. I'm a big fan of vinylester and use it for all the repairs on dive boats I own in the Caribbean that we do terrible things to.

[michaeld]

We are facing a similar situation. How long did it take for removal? What tricks did you learn and can share? Special tools and/or techniques?

Thanks!

[Celestialsailor]

If you can, do it from above.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

If your deck flexes, the core is quite likely wet and rotten, which would not be at unusual with an old teak deck that needed removal.

You have a much bigger repair in front of you than just sealing holes. Adding any reasonable number of layers of glass to the upper surface will not make the deck significantly stiffer.

Depends how much it flexes. Depends on how big you are. I am a pretty big guy. Decks flex under me. The cabin top moves quite a bit.

The question is are the decks squishy and do they measure high with a moisture meter.

[Cheechako]

I seriously doubt you need to add glass on a Baba. You may however have some wet core to replace.

[Swarriston]

You may find some very useful info from several of these “Sail Life / Refitting Athena” videos related to teak deck removal, core repair, and re-glassing: https://youtu.be/Y7lC6KNWr1c

[gulfislandfred]

If you used epoxy in the holes, you need to use epoxy on top of it. Epoxy sticks well to polyester, but polyester does not stick well to epoxy.


If you build up the glass where it's springy, with some extra mat or one of the mixed materials mentioned, you may be surprised at how much it will stiffen the deck.
This is from experience stiffening flat sections in the bottom or row/sail dinghies, in the pursuit of lighter weight. When we added a single roving in the area that flexed, it got a lot stiffer.


I don't know why anyone would wet out the material, then lay it down, in this situation. It's flat, it's big sections, gravity is in the right direction. My advice is laminate in place.

[Nicholson58]

This is a rehash of several previous threads. Do a little search on CF.

We also have balsa core previously teak decks. The refinish by the PO was inadequate. I definitely recommend biaxial stitch mat. It is easiest to form on compound curves, will lay flat and have less read-through of the reinforcement weave pattern. Check US Composites on line for the best variety and availability as well as price. I use their 635 THIN epoxy resin for all jobs. Mix and paint on with a throw away brush. This is a slow cure resin so you will have lots of time. (Hours).

For fairing I use the same epoxy with 3M micro balloons as a thickening agent. When cured it is easily sanded with a long board. -also uscomposites.com.

The purpose of the add on glass layer is to structurally bridge and waterproof all of your filled screw holes. A poor job here results in little half moon cracks as the deck flexes. Water then gets into the core.