Aesthetic design question: big arch at stern of sailing boat

[Djarraluda]

Buy some cheap dowl, or curtain rod or similar and mock-up the option. DuckTape the joints.
Stand back and view. Tweak the design, climb through it and realise what changes can be sensibly accommodated.
I then made it a tad neater and checked again before I finally made mine on the old boat.
Roger

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Notes from another M46x arch designer...

(see it here: Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Research_Before_Building_Our_Arch )

Hi Skip,

Yes, I've been looking at your design notes, and also looked at your arch when Joann and I visited you and Lydia last year (I'm wearing the shirt I earned at Mr. Manatees right now). The production arches from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports are quite a bit shorter than yours, at around 80" to the top of the top tube. This seems about right, and will still lift the dinghy high enough to have a clear field of view aft from the helm. Do you know anyone that has real-world experience with either of these two vendors? I've heard generally good things about Atlantic, but nothing (good or bad) about FishOnSports. The latter is very reasonably priced, around $1200 including shipping. If the quality and strength is there, then it will be hard to pass up.

Regards,
David

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by KP44

David

I think your Morgan 46 is very similar to our Kelley-Peterson 46. I am considering the same. I would remove the Monitor and install an autopilot directly on the quadrant belowdecks, making room for davits when we are not traveling. I'd also like to compare thoughts. An arch makes a lot of sense for many uses, including a little crane for parcels or outboards.

I already have two hydraulic autopilots, so I don't have that worry. My current Martek davits are awkward at best - the dinghy in it's stowed position blocks the stern navigation light, and also blocks deployment of the stern ladder. The davits also have re-enforcing braces that take up a lot of space on the aft deck. There is an anchor bracket on the stern rail that is also obscured by the davits. To top that all off I have an engine hoist and bracket for the outboard, all in awkward positions. A general pain in the rear end (pun intended). With an arch I solve all of these issues, and also have a platform on which to mount a fairly sizeable solar array and various antennas too. I get rid of the wonky Martek davits, the space-robbing braces, the engine hoist, and outboard bracket. Seems like a winner to me, and to top it all off I already have a hard-top bimini that is roughly the same height, so it should not look too awkward.

I'm probably going to pull the trigger on this in the next couple of weeks...

-David

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

Hi Skip,

Yes, I've been looking at your design notes, and also looked at your arch when Joann and I visited you and Lydia last year (I'm wearing the shirt I earned at Mr. Manatees right now). The production arches from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports are quite a bit shorter than yours, at around 80" to the top of the top tube. This seems about right, and will still lift the dinghy high enough to have a clear field of view aft from the helm. Do you know anyone that has real-world experience with either of these two vendors? I've heard generally good things about Atlantic, but nothing (good or bad) about FishOnSports. The latter is very reasonably priced, around $1200 including shipping. If the quality and strength is there, then it will be hard to pass up.

Regards,
David

Yes - Junab Ali, of Sleeper, in the Morgan Facebook and yahoo groups mailing lists, has an Atlantic arch. You can see his design in detail in my workup pages. Start here: Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Research_Before_Building_Our_Arch

[Rorzech]

Great Topic , Built mine from SS pipe. Thinking about a gentle peak running front to back. What do you think ? Things look better if you follow the boats lines i think.
Has anyone towed a big raft of panels behind on pontoons? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Once saw an 18 ft X 1 ft flex Solar panel you could stick on the side of your boat. If only one was getting the sun ,it would be almost doubled from the reflection off the water. Shadows across panels from rigging will cut power making in half even if it's just a wire. Would like to hear more this topic. Don't be shy !

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Actually, not.

You need to have a way for rain (snow??) to slide off; they become somewhat self-cleaning in that way, as well. See manufacturers' installation spec sheets; you'll find that level isn't good...

Ok I'll buy a very very slight tilt. This is not a fixed land implementation where the panels are always stable.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Rorzech

Great Topic , Built mine from SS pipe. Thinking about a gentle peak running front to back. What do you think ? Things look better if you follow the boats lines i think.
Has anyone towed a big raft of panels behind on pontoons? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Once saw an 18 ft X 1 ft flex Solar panel you could stick on the side of your boat. If only one was getting the sun ,it would be almost doubled from the reflection off the water. Shadows across panels from rigging will cut power making in half even if it's just a wire. Would like to hear more this topic. Don't be shy !

Not so much. Or, at least, in my Sunpower 360s, having a whip antenna (about 1.5") that I was replacing (dropped to do my upgrade) up/down/up/down/up again had a 2A difference in a 30-ishA total. Only one of the panels was shaded, so call it 2A in ~15A generated. And I did it when I'd have the most shading - from corner to opposing corner.

I haven't proven the concept, but I think you have to cover an entire cell to have the string go dark; shading is no worse than cloudy in the end, I've found.

[Bob666]

Parallell. Not perpendicular!

Will adress the questions/remarks soon!

Cheers

[Bob666]

Originally Posted by Djarraluda

Buy some cheap dowl, or curtain rod or similar and mock-up the option. DuckTape the joints.
Stand back and view. Tweak the design, climb through it and realise what changes can be sensibly accommodated.
I then made it a tad neater and checked again before I finally made mine on the old boat.
Roger

Yeah we did a PVC tube version first.

[Bob666]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Ok I'll buy a very very slight tilt. This is not a fixed land implementation where the panels are always stable.

Hi the tilt currently is 1 cm.

[Bob666]

Originally Posted by Davidhoy

I agree with this.

Curious about your plans, and I'm looking at something similar for the back of my Morgan 462. What is the height above the deck of the top of your arch? I've been eyeing the arch kits from Atlantic Towers and FishOnSports, both very reasonably priced and seem like the would fit quite well on my boat. They boat seem to come out at around 77" from the deck to the bottom of the arch, and 81" to the top. I'm planning on using my arch to lift the dinghy, mount solar panels and antennas, etc. I'd love to compare notes, if you're game...

-David

The arch is under construction currently:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byb...ew?usp=sharing

It will be fitted here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byb...ew?usp=sharing

As somebody mentioned. We haven't entirely sorted the bimini part of the refitting. We have spent $$$ so far and need to slow down on the spending so from now on things must become a bit cheaper. Perhaps more intelligent solutions/DIY can provide the answer, as well as skipping things.

If we ever get a Radar it could be seated on a shelf below the solar panel on the Arch.

We're going to fit a very odd solar panel and a Morningstar 30 Amps MPPT controller (Expensive, not pirated, the real thing! - but already payed for). The panel:
http://ppamsolkraft.nu/wp-content/up...sparium310.pdf

It also gets reflection from the water on the underside so theoretically +310 W. It'll feed the Morningstar with 36 V so we've settled with 6 mm2 cabling down to the Morningstar.

We will not bother with tilting arrangements. Here at N 58 it won't be super-efficient but we used to have 50 W so...Also fitting another 50 W separately to the windlass battery (separate bank).

Again, I hope 1 cm is enough permanent tilt. When fitting the Arch the blacksmith will help us cut the lower parts to make it 100% perfect fit in all directions, weld on feet etc. He's pretty good. In the images he hasn't used Acid on the welding yet, his other work looks factory-made. He will help us make the horisontal tubes be parallel to the waterline, 85% votes speaks for itself

[Bob666]

Might also fit dinghy davits. We cannot use the wind-vane with the dinghy hanging there, but could be useful while at anchor, in the night, to avoid theft and bottom growth.

Will also add a lifting arrangement on the port side, for the outboard.