Again About the Merits of COPPER-COAT

[SF Bay Dude]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

I'm thankful for the brilliant contributions
Yes, that's the time l have to scrub hull and bring her all the way down ! To gelcoat
Thus, this is an opportunity for a serious restart.

True, l realize the need to find out professional experts on that specific product.

Given that, in the near future, l would haul out the boat (1200$) Only for repaint, it can make sense.

But, the right partner is needed locally. I will inquire on Copper-coat directly.

Best :-)

I found the U.S. rep to be very unresponsive. However, the UK based rep was amazing with very quick turnaround regarding answers via email. Prep is vital, as well as proper application.

I should have mentioned that my bottom was taken all the way down to bare glass and then had 4 coats of inter protect 2000, so it's all ready for the copper coat.

[philtrick]

Originally Posted by SF Bay Dude

I found the U.S. rep to be very unresponsive. However, the UK based rep was amazing with very quick turnaround regarding answers via email. Prep is vital, as well as proper application.

I should have mentioned that my bottom was taken all the way down to bare glass and then had 4 coats of inter protect 2000, so it's all ready for the copper coat.

Second the UK rep recommendation.

Based in Ireland, have a 7.5m RIB that was copper coated in 2011. Still going strong, and only needs a light power wash when lifted out after 6 months in the water. (Shame you can't get coppercoat for the sponsons!)

Definitely worth the money paid for it, thinking of doing the cruising boat, but left her in water in a marina this winter.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Hmm... not sure if this is true. AFAIK, Cu is not particularly toxic - think Cu tubing for plumbing etc. The only reason Cu provides an antifouling role is that the Cu rapidly reacts with sea water to form CuO and/or Cu2O which then slowly coverts to other more toxic Cu salts.

Thus all Cu ends up as the same stuff when immersed in sea water.
Agreed, and the derivatives of copper found naturally in the earths crust some of which will end up in solution.

If there are some chemists on board, maybe they can confirm this or advise why it may be wrong!

The reason, because my choice in Cu coat is bound in a matrix of non water based epoxy it converts and leaches slower than the factory oxides/salts present in ablatives and hard AF's.(And factory coppercoat) It does not have biocide,fillers & binders to leach off.
The logic was to present only enough Cu to react form a toxic shield with seawater & no more.


I ran this past my daughter, Phd in marine biology, currently working on establishing accoustic metrics for the gauging the state-of-health of our oceans with NOAA.
The efficacy of this & similar preparations is more to do with its application than the carrier. (IMO)
Slippery nano preps are the future.

[fstbttms]

The question is not whether Coppercoat lasts a long time. Clearly it does. The question is; will it do a reasonable job at retarding fouling? I have been weighing-in on this issue regarding Coppercoat for years. The anecdotal evidence is mixed- those who sail in low-fouling waters typically seem pleased with the product while the negative reviews tend to come from areas where fouling is a genuine concern. This makes sense, as Coppercoat has an extremely low biocide leach rate, meaning one would expect that it doesn't have the anti fouling "oomph" to keep moderate to heavy fouling at bay.

To SF Bay Dude I would say, don't get your hopes up for a good result here with Coppercoat.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

The question is not whether Coppercoat lasts a long time. Clearly it does. The question is; will it do a reasonable job at retarding fouling? I have been weighing-in on this issue regarding Coppercoat for years. The anecdotal evidence is mixed- those who sail in low-fouling waters typically seem pleased with the product while the negative reviews tend to come from areas where fouling is a genuine concern. This makes sense, as Coppercoat has an extremely low biocide leach rate, meaning one would expect that it doesn't have the anti fouling "oomph" to keep moderate to heavy fouling at bay.

To SF Bay Dude I would say, don't get your hopes up for a good result here with Coppercoat.

On the money imo.

I think correct prep and choice of Cu particle plays a huge part too, along with how you clean your hull. High pressure water blasting could remove the Cu salts/oxides that have a weak chemical bond to the cu underneath so you are shooting yourself in the foot. Careful hull cleaning is imperative.
Leave the verdigris!

[Quadrille in JB]

Last year I pulled my boat to do the bottom. One of my buddies in the marina talked me into looking into the Coppercoat system. He was considering it for his boat and thought I would make a good Guinea pig or test case.
After talking with the very helpful people at Coppercoat I ordered their product and decided to go for it. The additional cost was not the biggest part of the project. The hardest part was taking the bottom down to the original barrier coat. Since the boat is 35 years old I decided to also use the barrier coat that coppercoat recommends.
I used 35 and 40 grit sand paper on a 5" Dewalt random motion sander connected to a 5.5 hp vacuum with a bag. The set up worked great as no dust escaped from the sander and I didn't have to build a plastic tent.
Once we removed all of the existing paint and barrier coat we wiped the entire hull down with denatured alcohol. Then we rolled on the new Epoxy barrier coat.
The secret is to apply both the barrier and copper coat in very thin layers in order to keep it smooth. The smoother each process is done the easier your job will be. I highly recommend sanding the barrier coat with 320 grit paper to get all of the bumps out before applying the Coppercoat.
Once the barrier coat is no longer tacky and sanded smooth you can begin applying the Coppercoat. Again, use very thin coats rolled out as smoothly as possible. After four or five coats, allow to dry tack free between coats, let dry until your sandpaper doesn't clog up and use 320 grit to burnish the surface to expose all of the copper and activate it's anti-fouling capabilities.
You will be rewarded with an almost glossy, smooth, and very hard anti-fouling bottom.
After nearly a year, the bottom is still barnacle free with only small bits of grass sticking at the waterline. This grass usually washes off each time we take it for a sail. I would highly recommend the use of copper coat. It worked great on my boat as well as my buddies 40 foot catamaran

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Btimmerman49

After nearly a year, the bottom is still barnacle free with only small bits of grass sticking at the waterline. This grass usually washes off each time we take it for a sail. I would highly recommend the use of copper coat.

Do you get a slime built up? I get a slime build fairly quickly but then it seems to stop after about 1/4" thick.
I haven't cleaned my keel for 1.5yrs and its pretty much hard growth free. Just slime and the odd tuft of weed.

[SF Bay Dude]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

The question is not whether Coppercoat lasts a long time. Clearly it does. The question is; will it do a reasonable job at retarding fouling? I have been weighing-in on this issue regarding Coppercoat for years. The anecdotal evidence is mixed- those who sail in low-fouling waters typically seem pleased with the product while the negative reviews tend to come from areas where fouling is a genuine concern. This makes sense, as Coppercoat has an extremely low biocide leach rate, meaning one would expect that it doesn't have the anti fouling "oomph" to keep moderate to heavy fouling at bay.

To SF Bay Dude I would say, don't get your hopes up for a good result here with Coppercoat.

I gave up on hopes a while ago. But, I am a fan of proper application via the manufacturers guidelines, which I think many a DIY'er fail to adhere to. I have seen evidence in higher fouling areas that it can do a decent job. It will be a good experiment as my boat is prepped for it anyhow and won't require too much work vs. taking years of old paint off the bottom.

If I have to haul out in 2-3 years, well, I would have had to do that anyhow.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

The question is not whether Coppercoat lasts a long time. Clearly it does. The question is; will it do a reasonable job at retarding fouling? I have been weighing-in on this issue regarding Coppercoat for years. The anecdotal evidence is mixed- those who sail in low-fouling waters typically seem pleased with the product while the negative reviews tend to come from areas where fouling is a genuine concern. This makes sense, as Coppercoat has an extremely low biocide leach rate, meaning one would expect that it doesn't have the anti fouling "oomph" to keep moderate to heavy fouling at bay after the first two (or maybe three) years.

To SF Bay Dude I would say, don't get your hopes up for a good result here with Coppercoat.

In the main I agree with this assessment. The only addition I would make is shown in red above.

My limited experience of Copper coat in high fouling areas is that the first couple of years are just OK. After that performance drops off. I would not be surprised if it dropped rapidly after that. In my case, I moved to a low fouling area after that and the performance has been great.

EDIT - to be clear, the stuff in red above are my words, not fstbttms.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by Wotname

In the main I agree with this assessment. The only addition I would make is shown in red above.

My limited experience of Copper coat in high fouling areas is that the first couple of years are just OK. After that performance drops off. I would not be surprised if it dropped rapidly after that. In my case, I moved to a low fouling area after that and the performance has been great.

EDIT - to be clear, the stuff in red above are my words, not fstbttms.

I have no relativity in different fouling rates.
I left my RIB (No AF) next to my boat & in two and a half months it was covered in 80-100 mm grass & weed with juvenile barnacles on the hull. Cleaned this off with stiff brush but left the tiny crustaceans. Two and a half months later a good portion of these had grown to 50mm diameter flat oysters which were welded to the fibreglass.
What level of fouling would you regard that?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by lateral

I have no relativity in different fouling rates.
I left my RIB (No AF) next to my boat & in two and a half months it was covered in 80-100 mm grass & weed with juvenile barnacles on the hull. Cleaned this off with stiff brush but left the tiny crustaceans. Two and a half months later a good portion of these had grown to 50mm diameter flat oysters which were welded to the fibreglass.
What level of fouling would you regard that?

I guess it is all relative

I would call that high.

[johnyhask]

Basically Britain ruled the waves largely to the fact of an almost unlimited supply of copper mined in Swansea, South Wales (just down the road from me)The wooden hulls were coated in thin copper sheet. Stopping growth and even worm in its tracks. Slippery bottoms with no growth meant for faster more manoeuvrable ships. Copper coat is made up of tiny balls of almost pure copper mixed into an epoxy vehicle. Almost dust like. Applied properly it's almost as good as the copper sheet of old. Every now and then just needs a bit of a rub down with fine wet n dry to expose more copper dust. Speaking from experience, done properly I don't think there's anything better.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by johnyhask

done properly I don't think there's anything better.

Aye, there's the rub.

[unbusted67]

Originally Posted by lateral

Aye, there's the rub.

Good pun dude. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Anyone have ten years?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by johnyhask

Basically Britain ruled the waves largely to the fact of an almost unlimited supply of copper mined in Swansea, South Wales (just down the road from me)The wooden hulls were coated in thin copper sheet. Stopping growth and even worm in its tracks. Slippery bottoms with no growth meant for faster more manoeuvrable ships. Copper coat is made up of tiny balls of almost pure copper mixed into an epoxy vehicle. Almost dust like. Applied properly it's almost as good as the copper sheet of old. Every now and then just needs a bit of a rub down with fine wet n dry to expose more copper dust. Speaking from experience, done properly I don't think there's anything better.

I don’t think copper clad bottoms stopped growth at all, they did worms though.

We have a member with a Dutch barge I believe who’s rudder is copper clad, I believe it has to be bottom painted just like the rest of the boat.