Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatman61

We have.??
Which phone do you use.?

Not sure which phone he uses but my old iPhone 7 has a compass, but I use handheld Suunto Compasses on the boat usually to check a ship's bearing early on to see if I can pass ahead or not

[CrispyCringle]

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

With the star gazing apps now it seems like it wouldn't be a huge challenge to design a program that uses the phone's compass combined with the date and what its camera sees on a clear night (polaris, southern cross, etc.) to give a reasonably accurate position similar to a sextant.

Thats a very interesting idea. I like it. Like a virtual sextant. The data for azimuth and elevation must be in the apps data base in order to project the sky image. Now we just have to wait for some enterprising and clever programer to come up with the app....

[dannc]

Chip based Inertial Navigation Systems(INS) are supposed to be getting "cheaper" and "better" from what I have read. If they get cheap enough, one would expect them to be included in navigation hardware at some point.

[MicHughV]

I've been told that airline jets use a navigation system not related to GPS.
True or not, I don't know.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've been told that airline jets use a navigation system not related to GPS.
True or not, I don't know.

Aircraft have systems in addition to GPS (and which predate GPS) but today GPS is heavily used simply because it is so good.

The earliest long range aircraft used sextants just like boats and normally had an navigator observation dome fitted somewhere for shooting the sun.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

They are still the preferred way of determining whether a risk of collision exists.

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sure which phone he uses but my old iPhone 7 has a compass, but I use handheld Suunto Compasses on the boat usually to check a ship's bearing early on to see if I can pass ahead or not

Hand held compasses I have used since I began sailing for coastal navigation to get things like position and distance off less so for ships bearings as a guardrail or stay works just as well to give me the above info.
As for built in compass.. I know mine has a gps facility for things like Petal maps when driving etc but a compass.. I think not unless there's an app I can download.
Just checked for apps but they only work on Google phones after 5 different tries.. Huawei's don't like Google..

[rslifkin]

For a binnacle compass I don't worry too much about perfect accuracy, at least not in a coastal setting. I never rely on it for actual nav, but having it as a reference for hand steering can be very useful when it's dark or visual reference is otherwise absent.

[CrispyCringle]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

Thats a very interesting idea. I like it. Like a virtual sextant. The data for azimuth and elevation must be in the apps data base in order to project the sky image. Now we just have to wait for some enterprising and clever programer to come up with the app....

I realize now that the star map/virtual sextant would be useless in a no-GPS situation since it needs a good starting fix to get an accurate star presentation. So, never mind.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

I realize now that the star map/virtual sextant would be useless in a no-GPS situation since it needs a good starting fix to get an accurate star presentation. So, never mind.

It would be unusual to not have some idea of your general location. How often do you wander into a dense fog and find yourself in the opposite hemisphere Just do the same as with a traditional sight and use an assumed position.

My guess is that the greater issue is the ability of the camera to capture the stars, and the accuracy of the inclinometers. That last could be probably be addressed if the horizon is in view.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Huawei's don't like Google..

https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/suppo...en-gb15758616/

[David Mathis]

A compass with paper charts worked for a couple thousand years, now is seems many boaters can't row across a fish pond without electronic navigation. Get a good compass, they don't need batteries and will let you find your way home even with GPS knocked out. We have a Ritchie. After 25 years, it developed a leak so it was returned for repair which was done quickly. Great company.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/suppo...en-gb15758616/

Cheers mate.. seems my phone does not come with a compass app so will live on without..

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by CarlF

And the design of the GPS system makes it almost impossible to knock it out entirely. Each satellite is independent. It is possible to jam GPS in a small area for a brief time. But since the jamming signal is easy to locate, if done as an act of war something like an EA-18 Growler jet would quickly turn it into a crater.

And if you were unfortunate to find your plastic boat in the middle of a war zone you really don’t need navigation. Something with large guns will soon contact you and tell you where to go.

Yes and no. First, the GPS system doesn't have to be knocked out to be useless. The GPS and other satellite systems are low powered so it is very easy to jam or worse, send false signals which provide incorrect locations. This is an ongoing issue throughout the world and occurs more often than people realize. North Korea and Iran do this, but individuals have been doing this also on a very localized basis.

We must also remember that nature can destroy or render temporarily useless. Solar flares can create quite a bit of disturbances.

As far as war goes, there is a train of thought that we are currently in WWIII but the nature of the war is quite different than previous wars. The argument is that it is being fought on an economic, political, social, etc. basis and that proxies are being used to do the actual fighting. This will allow many activities such as passage making to continue yet create potential for disruption to such actions.

Regardless of whether or not this idea is accurate is unimportant. What is important is that GPS and other satellite navigation systems are more vulnerable today than thirty or so years ago. The result is that one should have a back up plan and verify the accuracy of what they think they are seeing. Military forces around the world are aware of this and are working on alternatives. I have never relied solely upon one source of navigation and will continue to try to have alternatives.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Cheers mate.. seems my phone does not come with a compass app so will live on without..

Even if it doesn't come with one you can just download one. Most phones have a compass because it improves navigation. GPS (with the exception of very expensive multi-antenna GPS compass) can't know orientation. You can guess orientation by movement but only when moving. So most nav apps use both gps and compass data to better align the map. If use ever used google maps and rotated the phone and the map rotated you have a compass on the phone because gps alone can't detect that.

For android the app "Steel Compass" is pretty solid as it avoids useless junk and has no ads.

[requiem]

To mention a few apps...

"GPSTest", a more technical GPS diagnostics app for Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...stest&hl=en_US

"GPS Test", a simpler Android GPS diagnostics app, with I believe a compass:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...stest&hl=en_US

iPhone has a built-in compass app, but I've also found these related apps to be useful: "Theodolite", "Pro Compass", and "Pro Altimeter" Hunter Research & Technology (So far as I'm aware iOS doesn't expose the detailed data used by GPS testing apps like the Android ones.)