(atypical) halyard block location for asym

[Albee rose]

Hi all.

Hadda question for the hive mind about rigging an asymmetrical spinnaker on a 53' Skookum cutter-rigged ketch. Mast is deck-stepped 58'-tall boxed Dougfir, 5 3/8" X 8 1/4". Aware of mastcap "cranes" but prefer not to go that route (for variety of reasons).

Crux of the biscuit: placement of asym halyard block and mounting hardware. No bowsprit, rollerfurler headsail acts as forestay, connected directly at *highest point* on mastcap and, at low end, maximally fwd at anchor pulpit, i.e. no room to add another block *above* forestay w/o removing/altering mastcap/headsail and all associated comms/lights/etc. (One of reason a crane is prolly a no-go.).

That said: Tho I realize it's "wrong" (it's a commercial fishboat, so must confess there's a lotta jack-leg solutioning already baked into the cake), was thinking of positioning the asym halyard block *below* headsail-furler/forestay but well *above* staysail mastmount, so: when dousing onna jibe, close the bag on asym, walk the tamed tyrant thru "foretriangle" (not sure am using proper parlance, but i.e. route asym *between* forestay/headsailfurler and stayssailfurler) and open er up when ready on opposite side. Course, tack mount/block must be centered-aft of forestay in this scenario, but already lotta deck options for this.

That work?

Such, fwiw, is my thinking, subject to (potentially!) animated correction. Course, open to correction, alternate ideas, caveats, etc. (What I don't know is legion!) Any insights/advice would be much appreciated. Tx. for any input.

[Don C L]

So, just to be clear, the spinnaker will be doused with a sock you pull down from the head, correct? The with the sock on you or someone will walk it through between the stays on a gybe, yes? Well, I've never done it, but it SOUNDS theoretically possible to me and workable.

[Albee rose]

Ya, that was the plan. *If* that's doable (and for me, it's a very small imposition to douse in sock rather than try'nta jibe with full sail out, and frankly don't expect to jibe much anyway; mostly want a light-airs sail that'll push me up to or back from the Fairweather Grounds if gotta fair -- if light! -- wind), then it'd save much headache and heartache in revamping mastcap and forestay position.

Was my hope, anyways. Tx. for reply.

[Jim Cate]

Might have some chafe issues between the head of the kite and the forestay/foresail.

The gybe will work ok, though.

Jim

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by Albee rose

Ya, that was the plan. *If* that's doable (and for me, it's a very small imposition to douse in sock rather than try'nta jibe with full sail out, and frankly don't expect to jibe much anyway; mostly want a light-airs sail that'll push me up to or back from the Fairweather Grounds if gotta fair -- if light! -- wind), then it'd save much headache and heartache in revamping mastcap and forestay position.

Was my hope, anyways. Tx. for reply.

Yes, that is doable, but it is going to be trickier than it sounds (we do it that way sometimes; we have a bowsprit, so it is a bit different, but the principle is the same). The sock will find a way to get stuck on the stays and it is going to take some pulling to send it to the other side, but as long as you have enough room between the stays, it works. The other way, if you see that the first way is too laborious, and if you have two spin halyards and two tack lines, is to simply take the spin down, switch halyards and tack lines (or if you only have one of each, detach them and walk them to the other side), and hoist again. That works like a charm.

[meirriba]

Would it be feasible to exchange places? Take the current headsail to the new place you plan for the gennaker and install the new gennaker in the current foresail position?
Your idea would work as far as I see it, however it will be more efficient and easy to work with the gennakar if it will be the one at front. For instance, you will be able to perform an 'outside' jibe.

[Dave22q]

I thing your rig would hang up any time you tack and the halyard crossing the stay might hang up the sock as well. There is a good reason for using cranes at the masthead. Also it should not be that difficult to rig a short bowsprite or use an anchor roller for your ASM.

[S/V Alchemy]

I like the last two above answers as better solutions than yours, which I think may work...until it doesn't and you've buggered up two sails in one try.

I think it's necessary to have a good dousing assy spin forward of the forestay, which means the block at the assy head should be above the tang of the forestay. Otherwise, I see huge potential for fouling one hoist on the other. I've had sudden windshifts with a preventered main cause my spinnaker to "hourglass" around the forestay; were the halyard for that below that of the head of the jib, it would probably have ripped.

[roverhi]

If your sock works without any hassles should work fine though wouldn't want to be doing it in really Nasty conditions. I tack the Asym behind the headstay but use a spinnaker halyard to hoist it. To gybe have to 'sock' the Asym. disconnect the tack and maneuver it around forward of the headstay and reattach the tack. Do it single handed but have never done it strong winds. Have thought about adding a multipart tackle with a snap shackle to the tack. That would give me as much slack in the sail hoist as needed to move the tack around the headstay and not need to mess with the halyard.

I haven't done the maneuver in challenging conditions and on a smaller 35' boat so your experience may differ.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Albee rose

Hi all.
...rollerfurler headsail acts as forestay, connected directly at *highest point* on mastcap and, at low end, maximally fwd at anchor pulpit,

I am just having a problem visualizing your mast head.

Do you, or do you not, have a headstay?

How many forward halyards do you have at the top of the mast?

If you have a headstay and at least two halyards, use one halyard for the headsail and the other for the assym, and gybe it over the headstay (most spinnaker halyards are adjacent to the headstay or slightly above it.) Make sure you use some good chafe guard on the halyard which will be going over the headstay.

Tack the assym to some point near the forward part, maybe on the anchor roller, but you can tack it behind the headstay, you just have to have a short pennant to allow the tack to fly around the stay.

It's all going to be a bit klugey.

If you have just one halyard, then run a double sheave block up on that and reeve two halyards up.

If you have some other arrangement, then I am not sure how your rig works.