Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by ON3ZTT

I would like to replace my old (2003) Raymarine wheel pilot by a better performing and up to date Raymarine autopilo, on a Jeanneau Voyage 11.2 1991.
It seems physically impossible to install an electric linear drive RM pilot. The length of the linear drive and the necessary 250mm tiller arm can't be built in unless major cutup of bulkheads and moving other items in the space afr around the rudder stock. Really a pity....
My boat has a rack and pinion steering system with a rod moving a 190mm tillerarm on the rudder stock.

QUESTION: is a RM linear drive autopilot unit reallythat much better then a latest generation RM wheel pilot? On accuracy, heavy wind performance,...?
Thanks for your opinions or advices,

Jan, SY Goudurix, ON3ZTT, Belgium

Yes, underdeck autopilots are better than wheeled pilots.

The Raymarine Linear drives come in two sizes, the selection based upon the boats gross weight as I recall. YES, the length of the type 2L is longer than the shorter one, and they also make a hydraulic version which requires less length if you don't mind hydraulics. My boat came with a 2L that was totally misinstalled and never worked properly. I finally took it out and reinstalled it as close as possible to the specifications in the only possible location available with the help of a ABYC tech.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[smj]

Why do autopilot manufacturers base their autopilots on a boats weight? Wouldn’t it be better to base it on how light or heavy the helm is?

[Shanachie]

Raymarine's wheel pilots. including the EV 100, use belts and plastic gears.



In my experience, they're good to about 20 knots in most conditions, as long as the boat is not hard-pressed. After that, you're behind the wheel.


If you try to use one in rough conditions, you will be footing the bill for repairs.

[roverhi]

If ups want a wheel pilot with plenty of power might look at the CPT. Not the most advanced electronics but the power to steer a boat in most conditions. CPT Autopilot Inc.

Have had a couple of the Raymarine wheel pilots. They did okay powering but didn't have the oomph to steer the boat under sail. Boat had a barn door rudder that took some force to steer but nothing excessive. Might work on balanced spade rudder but not if the rudder takes some oomph to steer.

[wholybee]

I very recently installed s RM wheel pilot on a 38' boat. My primary "autopilot" is a windvane and the wheel pilot is used for very light wind and motoring when the windvane won't work.

The wheel pilot is very flimsy plastic cheap crap. It suits my needs and was easy to install, but i was really surprised how poorly built it is. Its s shame, its s brilliant design, just needs to have at least a few metal parts in it. It is all plastic inside. It doesn't seem like something that will last very long or be reliable.

It definitely slips quite a lot when the wind picks up. Also, it shipped with the wrong sized belt, and Raymarine support was less than useless and despite it being brand new i had to buy a replacement belt because they just wanted to email me the manual and close the ticket.

As far as performance holding a course, etc, it does a better job than my windvane when in windvane mode or hold a heading mode. In track mode where it is supposed to follow a route from the chart plotter, it does poorly. It hunts around the course over correcting and sailing an "S" crossing back and forth over the route. It ships without a rudder sensor, and i did not add one. I think it is needed for track mode.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by roverhi

If ups want a wheel pilot with plenty of power might look at the CPT. Not the most advanced electronics but the power to steer a boat in most conditions. CPT Autopilot Inc.

Have had a couple of the Raymarine wheel pilots. They did okay powering but didn't have the oomph to steer the boat under sail. Boat had a barn door rudder that took some force to steer but nothing excessive. Might work on balanced spade rudder but not if the rudder takes some oomph to steer.

the CPT looks interesting. I'm seriously considering one of their units. It says will deliver 86 ft/lbs torque to the wheel. Its probably no comparison to a hydraulic unit but might be plenty in most weather? I dont think they are designed for extreme weather though.

[bensolomon]

I have a CPT and I love it! Had it for 10 years. I single hand most of the time. Great customer service. Jeff is awesome and they stand behind their product. That said, when comparing CPT to my friends hydraulic ram, there is a difference.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by wholybee

As far as performance holding a course, etc, it does a better job than my windvane when in windvane mode or hold a heading mode. In track mode where it is supposed to follow a route from the chart plotter, it does poorly. It hunts around the course over correcting and sailing an "S" crossing back and forth over the route. It ships without a rudder sensor, and i did not add one. I think it is needed for track mode.

I noticed a big difference after doing some changes and installing a rudder reference unit. I would say they are essential for a RM wheel pilot.

BTW, the older black wheel drive has brass gears inside rather than plastic. Only found out after I changed or would have kept the older drive.

Pete

[mcon12000]

I’m on my second wheel pilot and it’s working fine on my 38’ 24,000lb boat. Been in some serious weather and haven’t experienced the issues others are pointing out. I’m guessing my helm is light by comparison.

The newest generation (what I have) is much better than the older unit. My boat doesn’t waver or have any issues maintaining a course it actually does a better job than a person at the helm.

I have space issues as well so that’s why I stayed with the wheel pilot.

[merrydolphin]

Yes, nearly any below decks pilot is better than even a new wheel pilot. They are pretty limited in there ability. And dependability. In fact Raymarine would not be my first choice of any pilot.

[mcon12000]

Originally Posted by mcon12000

I’m on my second wheel pilot and it’s working fine on my 38’ 24,000lb boat. Been in some serious weather and haven’t experienced the issues others are pointing out. I’m guessing my helm is light by comparison.

The newest generation (what I have) is much better than the older unit. My boat doesn’t waver or have any issues maintaining a course it actually does a better job than a person at the helm.

I have space issues as well so that’s why I stayed with the wheel pilot.

For the record I have a rudder position sensor which is essential based on my experience.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by ON3ZTT

I am now looking deeply into the JEFA Direct Drive DD1 which is compatible with major controller brands, and has a better footprint than an electric or hydraulic linear drive.

Waiting for some details from Jefa and detailed measurements of my current system (tiller arm; angles; available space)

Jan

I installed one of these on my old boat and it was fantastic.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by ON3ZTT

I would like to replace my old (2003) Raymarine wheel pilot by a better performing and up to date Raymarine autopilo, on a Jeanneau Voyage 11.2 1991.
It seems physically impossible to install an electric linear drive RM pilot. The length of the linear drive and the necessary 250mm tiller arm can't be built in unless major cutup of bulkheads and moving other items in the space afr around the rudder stock. Really a pity....
My boat has a rack and pinion steering system with a rod moving a 190mm tillerarm on the rudder stock.

QUESTION: is a RM linear drive autopilot unit reallythat much better then a latest generation RM wheel pilot? On accuracy, heavy wind performance,...?
Thanks for your opinions or advices,

Jan
SY Goudurix
ON3ZTT
Belgium

Avoid the tiller pilot linear drive if you can, the drive length on the new EV100 is that the correct name, anyway the drive length is not long enough and will leave you with 12’ angle available in each direction, the former ST2000+ tiller pilot has slightly longer drive, but the difference is massive.

Either way be sure to have a RM MFD to update the firmware before use - I have posted some issues here with my EV100 but I only have the option of a tiller drive.

Performance is ok but I can easily just lift the tiller pilot off and do at every tack.

[jbchrist]

Originally Posted by ON3ZTT

I am now looking deeply into the JEFA Direct Drive DD1 which is compatible with major controller brands, and has a better footprint than an electric or hydraulic linear drive.

Waiting for some details from Jefa and detailed measurements of my current system (tiller arm; angles; available space)

Jan

I used to have a hydraulic system (Simrad). Now I have Jefa DD1, and can only say that this is an amazing system with the following advantages (on trimaran, doing up to 20kn): No swapy feeling when you drive by hand because you do not have to push around oil in the lines. Very energy efficient- even in touch weather. Smart handover mechanism so the switch from auto to manual is always convenient. Very compressed, so easy to fit into most boats.
Have only done some 10K miles, so cannot judge long term sturdiness, but the design seems to be cleverly thought out, No brushes and other elements that can wear out.
Jorgen

[dfelsent]

I’ve been very happy with the robustness and serviceability of my hy-pro drive.
https://www.hypro.co.uk/products/hyd...eering-system/
Overkill for your boat but they do make smaller integrated units.
I’ve had great tech support via email from the factory and part have been available in the US for me as well as the UK where the unit was installed.
These will work with many manufacturers controllers.